Question regarding org-capture-bookmark and org-bookmark-names-plist

Question regarding org-capture-bookmark and org-bookmark-names-plist

[Tim Wichmann]

Hi all,

during last OrgMeetup, I proposed a new user option
`org-refile-bookmark', similar to the already existing option
`org-capture-bookmark'.  Setting this new option to nil, `org-refile’
would not create a bookmark when refiling.  (Use case: I am using
alphapapa's org-bookmark-heading package and want to prevent that each
captured/refiled entry gets an id.)

I was just about to send the corresponding feature request when I
stumbled across the documentation of `org-bookmark-names-plist'.  It
states: „When a key does not show up in the property list, the
corresponding bookmark is not set.“

So, there is no need for a new user option: I simply have to remove the
:last-refile key from the plist, and no bookmark will be created on
refiling.

My question: Is this the intended way to suppress bookmark creation?  If
so: Why is there the extra user option `org-capture-bookmark'?  Isn't it
superfluous, as the same behavior can be achieved by removing the
:last-capture keyword from the plist?  (Note, moreover, that currently
the :last-capture-marker bookmark is created even in case
`org-capture-bookmark' is set to nil, see `org-refile'.)


Best regards,
  Tim.

Re: Question regarding org-capture-bookmark and org-bookmark-names-plist

[Ihor Radchenko]

Tim Wichmann <schwurg@arcor.de> writes:

> during last OrgMeetup, I proposed a new user option
> `org-refile-bookmark', similar to the already existing option
> `org-capture-bookmark'.  Setting this new option to nil, `org-refile’
> would not create a bookmark when refiling.  (Use case: I am using
> alphapapa's org-bookmark-heading package and want to prevent that each
> captured/refiled entry gets an id.)
>
> I was just about to send the corresponding feature request when I
> stumbled across the documentation of `org-bookmark-names-plist'.  It
> states: „When a key does not show up in the property list, the
> corresponding bookmark is not set.“
>
> So, there is no need for a new user option: I simply have to remove the
> :last-refile key from the plist, and no bookmark will be created on
> refiling.

You are right.

> My question: Is this the intended way to suppress bookmark creation?

I think so.

> ... If so: Why is there the extra user option `org-capture-bookmark'?
> Isn't it superfluous, as the same behavior can be achieved by removing
> the :last-capture keyword from the plist?

We first introduced `org-capture-bookmark' and only then added
`org-bookmark-names-plist'. Maybe we should obsolete
`org-capture-bookmark' to avoid confusion.

> ...(Note, moreover, that currently
> the :last-capture-marker bookmark is created even in case
> `org-capture-bookmark' is set to nil, see `org-refile'.)

May you elaborate? Are you sure that it is still the case on the latest main?

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Question regarding org-capture-bookmark and org-bookmark-names-plist

[Tim Wichmann]

Dear Ihor,

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:
>> My question: Is this the intended way to suppress bookmark creation?
>
> I think so.

Great!

> We first introduced `org-capture-bookmark' and only then added
> `org-bookmark-names-plist'. Maybe we should obsolete
> `org-capture-bookmark' to avoid confusion.

Thanks for the clarification.  Obsoleting `org-capture-bookmark' sounds
good, as the variable does not add new functionality which can not be
achieved with `org-bookmark-names-plist' already.

>> ...(Note, moreover, that currently
>> the :last-capture-marker bookmark is created even in case
>> `org-capture-bookmark' is set to nil, see `org-refile'.)
>
> May you elaborate? Are you sure that it is still the case on the latest main?

I double checked in newest version of defun `org-refile' in main branch:
The bookmark for :last-capture-marker is set independently of the value
of `org-capture-bookmark'.  The corresponding code looks like this:

---[snip: org-refile.el, line 608 ff.]---
                 (when (bound-and-true-p org-capture-is-refiling)
                   (let ((bookmark-name (plist-get org-bookmark-names-plist
                                                   :last-capture-marker)))
                     (when bookmark-name
                       (condition-case err
                           (bookmark-set bookmark-name)
---[end snip]---

I would have expected that this bookmark is not set in case
`org-capture-bookmark' is set to nil, something like this:

---[snip]---
                 (when (bound-and-true-p org-capture-is-refiling)
                   (when org-capture-bookmark
                     (let ((bookmark-name (plist-get org-bookmark-names-plist
                       [...]                                                     
---[end snip]---

But, when obsoleting `org-capture-bookmark', this problem is solved
anyhow: Bookmark creation can be fully controlled using the plist
variable (and only there).

So, I vote for obsoleting `org-capture-bookmark'.

Thanks again for your help!


Best regards,
  Tim.

Re: Question regarding org-capture-bookmark and org-bookmark-names-plist

[Tim Wichmann]

Dear Ihor,

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:
>> My question: Is this the intended way to suppress bookmark creation?
>
> I think so.

Great!

> We first introduced `org-capture-bookmark' and only then added
> `org-bookmark-names-plist'. Maybe we should obsolete
> `org-capture-bookmark' to avoid confusion.

Thanks for the clarification.  Obsoleting `org-capture-bookmark' sounds
good, as the variable does not add new functionality which can not be
achieved with `org-bookmark-names-plist' already.

>> ...(Note, moreover, that currently
>> the :last-capture-marker bookmark is created even in case
>> `org-capture-bookmark' is set to nil, see `org-refile'.)
>
> May you elaborate? Are you sure that it is still the case on the latest main?

I double checked in newest version of defun `org-refile' in main branch:
The bookmark for :last-capture-marker is set independently of the value
of `org-capture-bookmark'.  The corresponding code looks like this:

---[snip: org-refile.el, line 608 ff.]---
                 (when (bound-and-true-p org-capture-is-refiling)
                   (let ((bookmark-name (plist-get org-bookmark-names-plist
                                                   :last-capture-marker)))
                     (when bookmark-name
                       (condition-case err
                           (bookmark-set bookmark-name)
---[end snip]---

I would have expected that this bookmark is not set in case
`org-capture-bookmark' is set to nil, something like this:

---[snip]---
                 (when (bound-and-true-p org-capture-is-refiling)
                   (when org-capture-bookmark
                     (let ((bookmark-name (plist-get org-bookmark-names-plist
                       [...]                                                     
---[end snip]---

But, when obsoleting `org-capture-bookmark', this problem is solved
anyhow: Bookmark creation can be fully controlled using the plist
variable (and only there).

So, I vote for obsoleting `org-capture-bookmark'.

Thanks again for your help!


Best regards,
  Tim.

Re: Question regarding org-capture-bookmark and org-bookmark-names-plist

[Ihor Radchenko]

Tim Wichmann <schwurg@arcor.de> writes:

> But, when obsoleting `org-capture-bookmark', this problem is solved
> anyhow: Bookmark creation can be fully controlled using the plist
> variable (and only there).
>
> So, I vote for obsoleting `org-capture-bookmark'.

Done.
Fixed, on main.
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/commit/?id=aa3724dbd

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>