From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Emacs website, Lisp, and other Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 08:17:16 +0200 Message-ID: <87bk1ub98z.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <87sevj9b50.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86h6bzqj2v.fsf@gnu.org> <87ed718o45.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <87le186g3f.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31542"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:Y8xO/xcDXXE9dR+lBMbNgAmmLVc= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 15 09:05:02 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1seUXe-00084N-2k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 09:05:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seUXD-0006HQ-4H; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 03:04:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seTnp-0004ag-CG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 02:17:41 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1seTnn-00021c-LQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 02:17:41 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1seTnk-0004bA-QJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2024 08:17:36 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 03:04:30 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322768 Archived-At: Madhu wrote: >>> Comprehension of the user's program reaches its greatest >>> heights for Lisp programs, because the simplicity of Lisp >>> syntax makes intelligent editing operations easier to >>> implement, while the complexity of other languages [...] >> >> Sorry, but we don't have _any_ of those advantages :) > > While the basic sexp structure sull seems the same, now to > understand the "modern code" you have to refer understand > and familiarize yourself and read documentation of the > constructs in the other languages before you can > understand elisp. I have 29 656 functions (of those are 8040 interactive) if this script is correct [1] For 'emacs -Q', or if you just run the script, the result is: 8559 functions (3014 interactive) Can that really be right? :O If you do this on the source: awk '/\(defun /{print $2}' **/*.el | sort -u | wc -l you get: 45 865 This is beyond me. How can we, in 2024, with Emacs development going on for 39 years, 4 months and 26 days, so far resulting in the writing of possibly _forty-five thousand_ Elisp functions - this is excluding ELPA, MELPA, and local code - how can we ask for basic math functions, functions that give you every word or sentence in a paragraph, and so on? Well, one thing is sure, if it really is that bad, let's not blame Lisp. [1] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/script/count-funs.el -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal