From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: How to quote a list of functions? Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <87b6cce0-ebe6-400a-b6e9-957e79a66511@default> References: <871tfdjqjx.fsf@mbork.pl> <87zj1vddkz.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87mvxug2us.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> <87vbch1gb0.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> <87wpwudby7.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> <87zj1qbwxs.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87r3n2btjl.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87mvxqbooi.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <8737zhcsvo.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439905855 26653 80.91.229.3 (18 Aug 2015 13:50:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:50:55 +0000 (UTC) To: Emanuel Berg , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 18 15:50:43 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRhHk-0008Hc-U5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:50:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37667 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRYoB-0001yx-GW for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 00:47:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39006) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRW6g-0004a8-4o for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 21:54:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRW6c-00035G-PI for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 21:54:29 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:21124) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRW6c-00035C-Jm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 21:54:26 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t7I1sP0r006678 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 18 Aug 2015 01:54:25 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t7I1sOqn023881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 Aug 2015 01:54:24 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t7I1sOhL005265; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 01:54:24 GMT In-Reply-To: <8737zhcsvo.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:106671 Archived-At: > when and why are functions refered to not > using symbols to designate them? Anonymous functions. http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Anonymous-Function= s.html In Emacs Lisp, a named function is named by a symbol. In Common Lisp, a named function is named by either a symbol or a list of the form `(setf SYMBOL)'. http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/26_glo_f.htm#function_name > Isn't the most natural way to refer to a function (or > anything else) just to type its name? Natural? Please take a poll of the biomass, and get back to us. > What are we gaining from having people and not > computers deal with this distinction? A function has other aspects (signature, in particular), besides it name. Just as a symbol has aspects (variable value, plist) other than its name and its function value. What do we "gain" by such distinctions? The distinctions are not just mental constructs; they are real - real distinctions wrt behavior. In the case of people, it's observable behavior that we care about. We typically don't care about all of the computer-level behavior. But we do care about behavior distinctions because we make use of them. We can make _use_ of the different aspects of functions, symbols, whatever. You ignore such differences at your own peril. Or to be less dramatic: it's your loss. Ignoring that there are different aspects means ignoring what a Lisp function (or symbol or whatever) _is_, which also means ignoring what it can be used for and how it can be used. In Lisp, in particular, you can treat `(lambda (x) (* x 2))' as a list, in addition to treating it as a function. It has different behaviors depending on what you do with it. Likewise, a symbol such as `car'. Now it's a function; now it's a variable; now it's neither; now it's an object with a plist attribute. Lisp lets you have your cake and eat it too. If you don't want to eat it, that's up to you.