embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Ted Zlatanov]

I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:

top-level docs:
http://www.mozilla.org/unix/gtk-embedding.html

specific embedding example:
http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/embedding/browser/gtk/tests/TestGtkEmbed.cpp

I know about W3, w3m, and so on.  The question is specifically about
Mozilla.  If this can be done with little effort, as the embedding
docs referenced above suggest, I think the Emacs users would gain from
it.  I can't suggest all the possible uses (although previewing HTML
as Mozilla would see it is certainly one of them), but I think this is
a feature that could engender many new uses of Emacs and make many
existing packages more functional.

Thanks
Ted

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:15:27 -0500
> 
> I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
> web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:

IIRC, this has come up before.  If memory serves, the main problem was
how to reconcile the Mozilla/GTK display functions with Emacs display
engine principle of operation.  Perhaps the situation has changed
since then, though.

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Jan D.]

>> From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
>> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:15:27 -0500
>>
>> I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
>> web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:
>
> IIRC, this has come up before.  If memory serves, the main problem was
> how to reconcile the Mozilla/GTK display functions with Emacs display
> engine principle of operation.  Perhaps the situation has changed
> since then, though.

I don't know the details about the display engine.  I imagine that is 
no problem as long as the GTK event loop is run properly.  Mozilla 
should handle its redisplay by function callbacks for expose events and 
the like.  But as long Emacs runs the X (or rather GTK) event handling 
in a signal handler, this will be hard to make work correctly, because 
the mozilla code may do just about anything.  It is possible it will 
work for most cases though.

	Jan D.

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[David Kastrup]

"Jan D." <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:

>>> From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
>>> Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 15:15:27 -0500
>>>
>>> I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
>>> web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:
>>
>> IIRC, this has come up before.  If memory serves, the main problem was
>> how to reconcile the Mozilla/GTK display functions with Emacs display
>> engine principle of operation.  Perhaps the situation has changed
>> since then, though.
>
> I don't know the details about the display engine.  I imagine that
> is no problem as long as the GTK event loop is run properly.
> Mozilla should handle its redisplay by function callbacks for expose
> events and the like.  But as long Emacs runs the X (or rather GTK)
> event handling in a signal handler, this will be hard to make work
> correctly, because the mozilla code may do just about anything.  It
> is possible it will work for most cases though.

Before we do any such inclusion, we need to do a sane image support.
For example, PNG provides functions to provide RGB information in
24bit or 32bit format, one color per pixel, with gamma correction
applied using efficient lookup routines, in several byte orders.  Now
suppose that we have a true color visual displaying exactly that
(practically all displays can support this sort of image type).

What happens?  PNG converts the image without getting the screen-gamma
informationinto 16bit per pixel format.  Then a look goes over all
pixels and calls _two_ nested functions to convert _every_ _single_
pixel.  If a gamma correction is to be applied, "pow" is called
_three_ times per pixel.

This is plainly insane.  Our per-display data structures need to get a
list of visuals (probably picking through the visuals until an optimal
set for image operations has been gathered), and then the image
reading routines (in particular where the png and jpeg libraries offer
this functionality) need to get told the gamma correction factor, and
then they read the stuff in in the _correct_ format and pass it
directly to the X server.

Scrolling through an image-infested buffer is still quite slow at the
moment, and particularly so if gamma correction gets applied.  This is
entirely uncalled for.

We _need_ to get this straightened out _completely_ before even
_thinking_ of embedding any content that can change dynamically.  The
data structures need to go into the per-visual information, and the
library must be allowed to generate 32-bit RGB _directly_ where the
display permits this, instead of 48-bit RGB which then slowly gets
converted one pixel at a time.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Richard Stallman]

    I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
    web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:

That sounds like an unnatural thing to do to Emacs.
I will send mail to fetch the page you mentioned.

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Richard Stallman]

    I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
    web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:

Let's please not discuss this now.  We are not working on new features
now.  What we want to do now is prepare for a release.

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005, rms@gnu.org wrote:

>    I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
>    web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:
> 
> Let's please not discuss this now.  We are not working on new features
> now.  What we want to do now is prepare for a release.

Sorry.  My intention was not to propose a new feature, but to find out
if it's remotely possible to do this some day.

I'll bring it up again when appropriate.

Thanks
Ted

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On  5 Mar 2005, rms@gnu.org wrote:

> Ted Zlatanov wrote:
>   I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
>   web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:
>
> Let's please not discuss this now.  We are not working on new features
> now.  What we want to do now is prepare for a release.

Now that 22.4 is out, can we consider this or some embedded web
browser GTK object?

Ted

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[David Kastrup]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> On  5 Mar 2005, rms@gnu.org wrote:
>
>> Ted Zlatanov wrote:
>>   I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
>>   web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:
>>
>> Let's please not discuss this now.  We are not working on new features
>> now.  What we want to do now is prepare for a release.
>
> Now that 22.4 is out, can we consider this or some embedded web
> browser GTK object?

Your calendar is either stuck on April 1st, or gone out of control in
front.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Chong Yidong]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> On  5 Mar 2005, rms@gnu.org wrote:
>
>> Ted Zlatanov wrote:
>>   I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
>>   web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:
>>
>> Let's please not discuss this now.  We are not working on new features
>> now.  What we want to do now is prepare for a release.
>
> Now that 22.4 is out, can we consider this or some embedded web
> browser GTK object?

Is this an email from the future?  Could you tell us who won the US
presidential elections in 2008 (or would that destroy the space-time
continuum)?

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On 31 May 2006, tzz@lifelogs.com wrote:

On 5 Mar 2005, rms@gnu.org wrote: > Ted Zlatanov wrote:
>> I am curious if there's a chance GNU Emacs will ever have an embedded
>> web browser object through the Mozilla GTK support:
>>
>> Let's please not discuss this now.  We are not working on new features
>> now.  What we want to do now is prepare for a release.
>
> Now that 22.4 is out, can we consider this or some embedded web
> browser GTK object?

Sorry, I sent this in error (obviously).

Ted

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On 31 May 2006, cyd@mit.edu wrote:

> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

>> Now that 22.4 is out, can we consider this or some embedded web
>> browser GTK object?
>
> Is this an email from the future?  Could you tell us who won the US
> presidential elections in 2008 (or would that destroy the space-time
> continuum)?

No, it's OK.  Barry Manilow won, VP is Taylor Hicks, on the "love is
in the air" platform.  Ruffled shirts and velvet are in style.

Ted

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Richard Stallman]

    Now that 22.4 is out, can we consider this or some embedded web
    browser GTK object?

The release has not yet been made.  Would you like to help
do the tasks in FOR-RELEASE?

For instance, some files in lispref/ still need to be checked a second
time.  You would be able to do that well.

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Richard Stallman]

    Is this an email from the future?  Could you tell us who won the US
    presidential elections in 2008 (or would that destroy the space-time
    continuum)?

I don't know who will win the election, but I can tell you which
party's candidate will become president.

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[David Kastrup]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     Is this an email from the future?  Could you tell us who won the
>     US presidential elections in 2008 (or would that destroy the
>     space-time continuum)?
>
> I don't know who will win the election, but I can tell you which
> party's candidate will become president.

Because it is easier for a hacker to predict voting machines rather
than voters?

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Kaloian Doganov]

	> I don't know who will win the election, but I can tell you which
	> party's candidate will become president.

	Because it is easier for a hacker to predict voting machines rather
	than voters?

Because in a modern democracy it doesn't really matter who will won the
elections.  The president is selected, not elected.


--
"Every non-free program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." --RMS
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Re: embedding Mozilla in GNU Emacs via GTK?

[Richard Stallman]

    Because it is easier for a hacker to predict voting machines rather
    than voters?

Because the companies that control the voting machines are run by
Republicans.