How to reply to bug reports

How to reply to bug reports

[martin rudalics]

Can someone please tell me how to reply correctly to a bug report.

If I do not cc bug-gnu-emacs, my reply won't appear there and chances to
get feedback from other developers are low as I noticed a couple of
times.  If I do cc bug-gnu-emacs I apparently file a new bug report as
already happened twice this week.

Thanks in advance, martin.

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Sven Joachim]

On 2008-08-08 13:52 +0200, martin rudalics wrote:

> Can someone please tell me how to reply correctly to a bug report.
>
> If I do not cc bug-gnu-emacs, my reply won't appear there and chances to
> get feedback from other developers are low as I noticed a couple of
> times.  If I do cc bug-gnu-emacs I apparently file a new bug report as
> already happened twice this week.

You should CC the bug number, i.e. NNN@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, but
not bug-gnu-emacs.  This will avoid opening new bug reports as well as
duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs.

Sven

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[martin rudalics]

 >>If I do not cc bug-gnu-emacs, my reply won't appear there and chances to
 >>get feedback from other developers are low as I noticed a couple of
 >>times.  If I do cc bug-gnu-emacs I apparently file a new bug report as
 >>already happened twice this week.
 >
 > You should CC the bug number, i.e. NNN@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, but
 > not bug-gnu-emacs.  This will avoid opening new bug reports as well as
 > duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs.

That's what I did initially.  For older bug reports there's hardly a
chance that the OP replies or applies a patch :-(

martin

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Sven Joachim]

On 2008-08-08 15:11 +0200, martin rudalics wrote:

>>>If I do not cc bug-gnu-emacs, my reply won't appear there and chances to
>>>get feedback from other developers are low as I noticed a couple of
>>>times.  If I do cc bug-gnu-emacs I apparently file a new bug report as
>>>already happened twice this week.
>>
>> You should CC the bug number, i.e. NNN@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, but
>> not bug-gnu-emacs.  This will avoid opening new bug reports as well as
>> duplicate messages on bug-gnu-emacs.
>
> That's what I did initially.  For older bug reports there's hardly a
> chance that the OP replies or applies a patch :-(

You have to CC the submitter if you want him to answer, did you do that?
Note that mails sent to NNN@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com will appear on
bug-gnu-emacs, albeit not immediately.

Sven

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[martin rudalics]

> You have to CC the submitter if you want him to answer, did you do that?

I did.

> Note that mails sent to NNN@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com will appear on
> bug-gnu-emacs, albeit not immediately.

Ahhh ...  found them finally.  For some strange reason they can take
quite some time to show up.   Thanks for your help.

martin

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Stefan Monnier]

> Can someone please tell me how to reply correctly to a bug report.

> If I do not cc bug-gnu-emacs, my reply won't appear there and chances to
> get feedback from other developers are low as I noticed a couple of
> times.  If I do cc bug-gnu-emacs I apparently file a new bug report as
> already happened twice this week.

AFAIK, the only place you should need reply is to
NNN@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com and that should go to all the right
places (i.e. to bug-gnu-emacs, to the OP, and hopefully to most other
people who participated in this bug report).  If it doesn't I'd consider
it as a bug that Don might want to fix (or explain).
Don?


        Stefan

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Don Armstrong]

On Fri, 08 Aug 2008, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > Can someone please tell me how to reply correctly to a bug report.
> 
> > If I do not cc bug-gnu-emacs, my reply won't appear there and chances to
> > get feedback from other developers are low as I noticed a couple of
> > times.  If I do cc bug-gnu-emacs I apparently file a new bug report as
> > already happened twice this week.
> 
> AFAIK, the only place you should need reply is to
> NNN@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com and that should go to all the right
> places (i.e. to bug-gnu-emacs, to the OP, and hopefully to most other
> people who participated in this bug report). 

It doesn't currently go to the submitter; the logic behind this is
that the submitter doesn't always care about the machinations going
about to fix the bug.

However, the ability for a submitter to easily decide that they want
to get information about a bug is something that I'm going to add;
it's pretty high on my todo list. [It's part of the per-bug
subscription setup that Debian already has, but hasn't been deployed
for emacs bugs.]


Don Armstrong

-- 
G: If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do?
EB: Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and
scatter oneself over a wide area.
 -- Somewhere in No Man's Land, BA4

http://www.donarmstrong.com              http://rzlab.ucr.edu

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Stefan Monnier]

>> > Can someone please tell me how to reply correctly to a bug report.
>> > If I do not cc bug-gnu-emacs, my reply won't appear there and chances to
>> > get feedback from other developers are low as I noticed a couple of
>> > times.  If I do cc bug-gnu-emacs I apparently file a new bug report as
>> > already happened twice this week.
>> 
>> AFAIK, the only place you should need reply is to
>> NNN@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com and that should go to all the right
>> places (i.e. to bug-gnu-emacs, to the OP, and hopefully to most other
>> people who participated in this bug report). 

> It doesn't currently go to the submitter; the logic behind this is
> that the submitter doesn't always care about the machinations going
> about to fix the bug.

In the context of Free Software, I think we want to encourage people to
delve into the development of the tools they use.  Especially when we're
talking about applications like Emacs which are mostly targetted
at programmers.

So I'd be very happy if you could change this such that the OP (and all
other people who contributed to the bug discussion) get included.
It's also good to additionally provide a way for someone to opt out of
the discussion after having sent something, but the default should be
for them to be included.


        Stefan

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[martin rudalics]

 >> AFAIK, the only place you should need reply is to
 >> NNN@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com and that should go to all the right
 >> places (i.e. to bug-gnu-emacs, to the OP, and hopefully to most other
 >> people who participated in this bug report).
 >
 > It doesn't currently go to the submitter; the logic behind this is
 > that the submitter doesn't always care about the machinations going
 > about to fix the bug.
 >
 > However, the ability for a submitter to easily decide that they want
 > to get information about a bug is something that I'm going to add;
 > it's pretty high on my todo list. [It's part of the per-bug
 > subscription setup that Debian already has, but hasn't been deployed
 > for emacs bugs.]

I've been confused by a couple of things, especially by the fact that I
received a confirmation from the bug tracker almost _instantaneously_
but for at least two reports never received a copy via bug-gnu-emacs.
Either my mail provider (gmx) rejected them or the relay via
bug-gnu-emacs didn't work out.  Only after Sven's explanation, and after
checking the archives, I found that my replies were indeed sent to
bug-gnu-emacs.

It would be probably more foolproof if the bug-tracker did explain in a
two or three lines how to reply correctly and where replies are sent to
(the original submitter, which list, any subscribers).  Well, maybe this
is self-evident to everyone but me ...

Apart from that I do like the bug-tracker a lot.  Sorry for the mess
I've been causing - someone will have to merge #671-#674 into #587 as
well as #657 into #466.

martin

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Bill Wohler]

Don Armstrong <don@donarmstrong.com> writes:

> On Fri, 08 Aug 2008, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> > Can someone please tell me how to reply correctly to a bug report.
>> 
>> > If I do not cc bug-gnu-emacs, my reply won't appear there and chances to
>> > get feedback from other developers are low as I noticed a couple of
>> > times.  If I do cc bug-gnu-emacs I apparently file a new bug report as
>> > already happened twice this week.
>> 
>> AFAIK, the only place you should need reply is to
>> NNN@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com and that should go to all the right
>> places (i.e. to bug-gnu-emacs, to the OP, and hopefully to most other
>> people who participated in this bug report). 
>
> It doesn't currently go to the submitter; the logic behind this is
> that the submitter doesn't always care about the machinations going
> about to fix the bug.

I agree with Stefan. The submitter and others who participated should
always be cc'd. All other systems I'm on do so, so not doing so
violates the principle of least surprise. As a submitter, I like to
see the machinations since it shows that at least my report is getting
attention. Best of all is the email you get when the report is closed.

Not only that, most "machinations" are requests for additional
information from the OP or to ask them to test the CVS version.
Forcing the maintainer to go back to the archives to find the OP's
address is unnecessary work.

Please consider fixing this behavior. Thanks.

-- 
Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com>  http://www.newt.com/wohler/  GnuPG ID:610BD9AD

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Don Armstrong]

On Sat, 09 Aug 2008, Bill Wohler wrote:
> As a submitter, I like to see the machinations since it shows that
> at least my report is getting attention.

In general, as a submitter you'd do this by subscribing to the bug or
otherwise indicating as such. Always sending mail makes this
non-configurable.

> Best of all is the email you get when the report is closed.

This the submitter always gets.

> Not only that, most "machinations" are requests for additional
> information from the OP or to ask them to test the CVS version.

If you want to send mail to the submitter unconditionally, mail
nnn-submitter@


Don Armstrong

-- 
                    EQUAL RIGHTS FOR WOMEN
Don't be teased or humiliated. See their look of surprise when you
step right up to a urinal and use it with a smile. Get Dr. Mary Evers'
EQUAL-NOW Adapter (pat. appld. for) -- purse size, fool proof,
sanitary -- comes in nine lovely, feminine, psychedelic patterns --
requires no fitting, no prescriptions.
 -- Robert A Heinlein _I Will Fear No Evil_ p470.

http://www.donarmstrong.com              http://rzlab.ucr.edu

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Stefan Monnier]

>> As a submitter, I like to see the machinations since it shows that
>> at least my report is getting attention.

> In general, as a submitter you'd do this by subscribing to the bug or
> otherwise indicating as such. Always sending mail makes this
> non-configurable.

I don't want to force the submitters to be subscribed.  I just want them
to be subscribed unless they explicity request otherwise, just like
currently they are not subscribed unless they explicitly request it.


        Stefan

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Glenn Morris]

Stefan Monnier wrote:

> I don't want to force the submitters to be subscribed.

Before we started using Debbugs, they had to be subscribed or
explicitly Cc'd, so nothing has changed.

(Except now there is a Reply-To header for everyone to ignore.)

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I don't want to force the submitters to be subscribed.
> Before we started using Debbugs, they had to be subscribed or
> explicitly Cc'd, so nothing has changed.

There's a change: the contributors don't all accumulate in the From: and
To: and Cc: line any more.


        Stefan

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Glenn Morris]

Stefan Monnier wrote:

> There's a change: the contributors don't all accumulate in the From: and
> To: and Cc: line any more.

Anyone who contributes after the bug is opened is presumably
subscribed to the bug mailing list, else they would never have got a
copy in the first place. So no need for inflation of the To/Cc
addresses (which I always saw as rather pointless).

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Stefan Monnier]

>> There's a change: the contributors don't all accumulate in the From: and
>> To: and Cc: line any more.

> Anyone who contributes after the bug is opened is presumably
> subscribed to the bug mailing list, else they would never have got a
> copy in the first place. So no need for inflation of the To/Cc
> addresses (which I always saw as rather pointless).

There's a web interface as well.  Currently, it's not widely advertized,
but in most bug-tracking systems I know, it's very common for end-users
to search the bug-tracker (via the web) before posting a new bug.  So if
they find a related bug, they'll probably contribute to it, although
they did not receive it.


        Stefan

Re: How to reply to bug reports

[Bill Wohler]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>>> There's a change: the contributors don't all accumulate in the From: and
>>> To: and Cc: line any more.
>
>> Anyone who contributes after the bug is opened is presumably
>> subscribed to the bug mailing list, else they would never have got a
>> copy in the first place. So no need for inflation of the To/Cc
>> addresses (which I always saw as rather pointless).
>
> There's a web interface as well.  Currently, it's not widely advertized,
> but in most bug-tracking systems I know, it's very common for end-users
> to search the bug-tracker (via the web) before posting a new bug.  So if
> they find a related bug, they'll probably contribute to it, although
> they did not receive it.

This is true. I do this a lot, and it would be very annoying if I
didn't (automatically) get followups. I'd bet that the majority of
Debian bugs have submissions from others and I haven't heard a single
complaint about their being subscribed to the bug emails.

Because that's what people want.

-- 
Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com>  http://www.newt.com/wohler/  GnuPG ID:610BD9AD