From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Dan Davison Subject: [babel] Re: org-babel: Meta-LaTeX-Python-Environment Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:10:04 -0400 Message-ID: <87aazblctf.fsf_-_@stats.ox.ac.uk> References: <200910261327.09576.torsten.wagner@googlemail.com> <878wexheeq.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <4edb2bbc0910270757i3911f817jd99bc68eb4639e31@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N3B6E-0003Xb-E0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:10:14 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N3B69-0003R9-EB for Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:10:13 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51869 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N3B69-0003Qm-7g for Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:10:09 -0400 Received: from markov.stats.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.210.1]:62161) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N3B68-0002vs-Pq for Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:10:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Eric Schulte's message of "Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:19:39 -0600") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Eric Schulte Cc: Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Dear thread participants, please note that we were breaking the rule of prepending the subject line with the string [babel]! One question inline below. "Eric Schulte" writes: > "Thomas S. Dye" writes: > >> On Oct 27, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Eric Schulte wrote: > >>> Although I still don't fully understand the need to embed latex >>> *inside* >>> of source-code blocks, perhaps the attached org-babel-latex.el file >>> [1] >>> will represent a simpler solution for embedding the results of >>> source-code blocks in latex source-code blocks. It makes use of >>> the :var org-babel header argument as shown in the attached example >>> file >>> [2]. To reproduce first load org-babel-latex.el and then evaluate the >>> latex block (note the results are already in the file from my test >>> evaluation). >>> >>> Hope this helps -- Eric >>> >>> Footnotes: >>> [1] >>> [2] >> >> Thanks for this, Eric. It looks neat. I was happy with all the >> little .tex files, but agree with Torsten that this path is >> potentially cleaner. >> > > Please let me know if you do find this useful or have any suggestions. > If it proves useful I will add it to the org-mode repository. Am I right in thinking that one issue remaining in this thread is that we currently have no means of tangling the output of org-babel-latex? Thus the 'begin_src latex' blocks that we can tangle have unevaluated variables, and the resulting 'begin_latex' blocks have evaluated variables but can't be tangled? (We could extend tangling to cover such blocks, or perhaps preferably use ':results code' to generate 'begin_src latex' blocks?) Dan > >> >> In response to the implicit question in your comment, perhaps there >> isn't a need to embed LaTeX inside source blocks and the uses to which >> I put them could be accomplished in org-mode without them. My >> programming skills are pretty crude and I'm aware that I'm a long way >> from understanding org-mode and its vast potential. With that caveat, >> here is my $0.02. >> > > I'm also very far from taking full advantage of Org-mode export > >> >> First, practical reasons: >> >> 1) I'm comfortable writing LaTeX and am particular about the results; >> it is hard for me to map the inverse transformation through the org- >> mode LaTeX exporter to express in org the particular LaTeX result I'm >> after. >> >> 2) Someone on the list (Carsten?) mentioned a couple of days ago that >> it wasn't reasonable to expect the org LaTeX exporter to capture the >> full complexity of LaTeX (I'm paraphrasing, but I think that was the >> gist); I ran up against an example of this (or so I think) when trying >> to configure export to beamer code, where beamer's use of columns >> tripped me up. >> > > I fully understand your point. I guess that given my personal paucity > of latex knowledge and abilities the same need has never occurred to > me. In my case the Org-mode exported generally knows more about latex > than I do. > >> >> Second, conceptual reasons: >> >> 1) I consider writing LaTeX to be programming (here I mean no >> disrespect to real programmers) and appreciate being able to do >> literate LaTeX programming; the LaTeX source blocks let me write my >> beamer presentation a slide or two at a time, just as I want them, >> along with an adjacent source block for my print document, just as i >> want it, that covers the same conceptual space, while I use the >> surrounding org entries to document why I am doing things a particular >> way, etc. >> > > I see, you are using the org-mode file "a level above" the direct > export. Maybe another option here would be to tag headlines based on > which export target they are included within, and then base your exports > on the headline tags (using #+EXPORT_INCLUDE_TAGS:), although I agree > this also seems like an appropriate place to use the tangle > functionality. > >> >> 2) I think this workflow, with an org-mode meta-document that >> encapsulates the print document and presentation materials, along with >> the SQL, R, and Python code used to create the datasets and analyze >> them, takes org-babel a step closer to realizing its potential as a >> tool for reproducible research. Here, I am thinking of an org >> document that captures the ways in which a piece of research is one >> logical path among many possibilities, implemented and expressed in >> one particular way (or two, if you want to distinguish print from >> presentation) among many possibilities. >> >> The LaTeX source blocks in org-babel give me an easy and natural way >> to accomplish these things. In the short time I've used them, they've >> yielded results that impress me. I'm confident they hold much more >> potential than I've been able to tap. >> > > I didn't mean to imply that because I didn't understand the need for > direct inclusion of latex code there *wasn't* a need for direct > inclusion of latex code :) Thanks for the explanation. > >> >> It is a real pleasure leveraging your good work. >> > > It is a pleasure to be able to participate in such a nice open-source > community. -- Eric > >> >> Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode