From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?windows-1252?Q?=D3scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Scrollbar thumbs Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:38:44 +0100 Message-ID: <87aayy8f3f.fsf@telefonica.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1257611968 23471 80.91.229.12 (7 Nov 2009 16:39:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 16:39:28 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 07 17:39:21 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1N6oJs-0000qj-6D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:39:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51020 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N6oJr-0003Pt-P6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:39:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N6oJn-0003PW-HF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:39:15 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N6oJj-0003LQ-M9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:39:15 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42290 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N6oJj-0003L7-HH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:39:11 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:56648) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N6oJi-00045o-VS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:39:11 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1N6oJg-0000mU-M4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:39:08 +0100 Original-Received: from 146.red-83-40-117.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.40.117.146]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:39:08 +0100 Original-Received: from ofv by 146.red-83-40-117.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:39:08 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 33 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 146.red-83-40-117.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:MW4ejgUGqvqWNne1MEIk7uREMuw= X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:116701 Archived-At: "grischka" writes: > Óscar Fuentes wrote: >> Sure, the Real World is slowly adapting to the rules stated by some >> illuminated GUI toolkit designers. > > The entire Real World? No! A small village of indomitable lisp hackers > still holds out against the visual invasion, fortified by their magic > knowledge of the mantras that allow them to transform pure human will > into virtual user interfaces located in the user herself. Just in case someone takes the above comment half-seriously, it is worth noting that the problem faced by emacs wrt GTK scrollbar would hinder other applications too. For instance, on some areas it is required to display very large datasets on a grid. There, it is not often clear how much rows there are on the dataset, nor exists the concept on n-th row, so it is not possible to have a precise 1-to-1 mapping among the scrollbar thumb position and the dataset cursor position. On those applications it is useful to handle thumb movements as exponential displacements too. Nothing on the Holy Scripture says that scrollbars are forbidden for those uses. Quite the contrary, users have no problem at all using scrollbars with that behaviour. GTK chose a very restrictive concept of scrollbar. Not only this, but it chose to *force* this concept on the users. You can adapt Emacs to GTK requirements, but I wouldn't consider that a bug fix, but rather a workaround for a dumb widget. -- Óscar