From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bzr repository ready? Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:45:29 +0900 Message-ID: <87aaye3nba.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87639fr3w7.fsf@red-bean.com> <87vdhfpil2.fsf@red-bean.com> <87einvxy9c.fsf@red-bean.com> <20091118230952.GB908@muc.de> <87my2jw05z.fsf@red-bean.com> <83skc9pbf7.fsf@gnu.org> <87iqd5vw5n.fsf@red-bean.com> <877htl53tc.fsf@telefonica.net> <87ws1ku7zd.fsf@red-bean.com> <87hbso4s13.fsf@telefonica.net> <83aaygoy90.fsf@gnu.org> <87vdh36d48.fsf@telefonica.net> <831vjrptha.fsf@gnu.org> <87einr63b6.fsf@telefonica.net> <83y6lzo9e7.fsf@gnu.org> <871vjr750o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87zl6fnnu2.fsf@notengoamigos.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1258882781 11722 80.91.229.12 (22 Nov 2009 09:39:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:39:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jason Earl Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 22 10:39:34 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NC8ur-0003BS-O7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:39:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57875 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NC8ur-0006iQ-8d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:39:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NC8uk-0006iL-VV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:39:26 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NC8uf-0006dz-Eb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:39:25 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52875 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NC8uf-0006dw-9Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:39:21 -0500 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:33637) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NC8uZ-0004LU-SO; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:39:16 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 852AF1535AF; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:39:09 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 96E4E1A28C6; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:45:29 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <87zl6fnnu2.fsf@notengoamigos.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" d20e0a45a4b2 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117493 Archived-At: Jason Earl writes: > "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > > > But Bazaar branches *cannot* at present be colocated; they *cannot* > > share a working tree. That means that if you do a "bzr branch" for a > > one-line change, you have to do a "make bootstrap" to test. > > EEEEEEeeeeeewwwwww. > > That's not entirely true. I keep a "workspace" checkout in my > repository and then "bzr switch" between the branches that I am working > on. Sure, what I wrote isn't 100% accurate. But it's close enough, and reasonably intelligible to novices (at least I tried to make it so). So please, as Eli implicitly requested, let's talk one workflow at a time. I'm fine if you want to change to a different workflow which is admittedly better, but what you just wrote is not an explanation of a different workflow, or even an admission that you *are* talking about a different workflow. It's merely a laundry list of new vocabulary for novices to learn, with no definitions. And Eli *did* ask about the workflow I wrote about. In more detail: In git the workflow in question is 1. Observe an issue. Plan a design and task to deal with it. 2. "git checkout -b issue-oriented-task" # create and checkout new branch 3. Hack away. 4. "git commit -a -m 'Here is a problem and how I solved it.'" 5. "make" 6. Run tests. 7. If problems, goto 4. 8. "git checkout master; git merge issue-oriented-task; git push" These git operations are very fast and transparent; this is a winning workflow. In bzr, the same workflow is implemented 1. Observe an issue. Plan a design and task to deal with it. 2. "bzr branch trunk issue-oriented-task" 3. "cd issue-oriented-task" 4. Hack away. 5. "bzr commit -m 'Here is a problem and how I solved it.'" 6. Prepare to test: "make bootstrap" 7. Run tests. 8. If problems, goto 4. 9. "cd ../trunk; bzr merge issue-oriented-task; bzr commit; bzr push" This workflow sucks because steps 2 and 6 are slow, but people more familiar with git than bzr are likely to remember it, adopt it themselves (and be frustrated and switch back to git), and recommend it to novices (who will also experience frustration). Now you're suggesting an alternative which is just about as efficient as the git workflow. *But* there's an important difference. Both workflows described above depend only on the existence of a mirror branch; otherwise they are standalone, they work just as well for a single contribution as for a regular contributor. The workflow you are suggesting, though, has some components that look like the above, and others that involve preexisting context (several branches, for example) and new commands which are actually old commands with new names (bzr switch, at least). Somebody needs to explain all that (and it's not going to be me, unless Tim O is about to offer me a book contract ;-).