From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1305: Beeping (was: Emacs for new users) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:35:27 +0200 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <87aay91k9j.fsf_-___37791.4512333975$1259276889$gmane$org@mail.jurta.org> References: <912155b0911230837i48326730m82e0d54d4004be59@mail.gmail.com> <87y6lxdvnl.fsf@mandingo.thematica.it> <87zl6dgjt1.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874oolarvt.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: Juri Linkov , 1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259276889 25289 80.91.229.12 (26 Nov 2009 23:08:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:08:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Per =?UTF-8?Q?Starb=C3=A4ck?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Giuseppe Scrivano , 1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 27 00:08:01 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NDnRR-0004QD-2B for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:08:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51524 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NDnRQ-00039l-Ns for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:08:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NDnQz-00031C-1L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:07:33 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NDnQt-0002zT-1p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:07:31 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=59370 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NDnQs-0002zQ-Kg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:07:26 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:56855) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NDnQr-0008QG-M8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:07:26 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id nAQN7MFq012575; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:07:23 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id nAQMo4N4010389; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:50:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:50:04 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Juri Linkov Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:50:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 1305 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 1305-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1305.12592753239875 (code B ref 1305); Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:50:04 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1305) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 26 Nov 2009 22:42:03 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from mx1.starman.ee (smtp-out3.starman.ee [85.253.0.5]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id nAQMg1IY009868 for <1305@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:42:02 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by Amavisd-New at mx1.starman.ee Original-Received: from mail.starman.ee (82.131.35.21.cable.starman.ee [82.131.35.21]) by mx1.starman.ee (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1B23F412A; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:41:54 +0200 (EET) In-Reply-To: <874oolarvt.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:49:26 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:07:31 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:32965 Archived-At: >>>> * beeping is often disturbing and unexpected, in particular for >>>> scrolling past the beginning or end of the >>>> buffer with the scroll wheel. (I agree. That's hardly an error.) >>> >>> yes, I agree with you, beeping is often disturbing. You can disable it, >>> changing the value of visible-bell to t: > >> This is bug#1305. That discussion never came to a conclusion. > > One complication, now that I recall, is that we really do want to signal > an error for beginning-of-buffer and end-of-buffer, so that keyboard > macros will terminate. > > The problem is that we have no mechanism for telling Emacs not to ring > the bell for certain classes of errors. I suggest to implement this mechanism by adding a new symbol property, e.g. `error-bell' by analogy with properties `error-message' and `error-conditions', with possible values t, nil and `visible'. And to put this property with the value nil on `beginning-of-buffer', `end-of-buffer' and `keyboard-quit' - most annoying beeping commands. > But I'm not sure Emacs should even be in the bell-ringing business, > anyway; it's a barbaric practice, and an echo-area message IMHO > suffices. Yes, this practice comes from ancient times of beeping keyboards :-) -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/