* New branch @ 2010-01-28 2:37 Stefan Monnier 2010-01-28 5:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 2010-02-03 1:05 ` Kenichi Handa 0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-01-28 2:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel I have just opened a new branch sftp://bzr.sv.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/pending which is intended to receive patches that cannot be installed in trunk because they're not bug-fixes. I.e. the branch is there so instead of saying "please come back later" we can just install the corresponding patch/package into this branch. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-28 2:37 New branch Stefan Monnier @ 2010-01-28 5:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 2010-01-28 19:13 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-02-03 1:05 ` Kenichi Handa 1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2010-01-28 5:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> > Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:37:34 -0500 > > I have just opened a new branch sftp://bzr.sv.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/pending > which is intended to receive patches that cannot be installed in trunk > because they're not bug-fixes. Does this mean that there will be no release branch for Emacs 23.2, and it will be released from the trunk instead? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-28 5:40 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2010-01-28 19:13 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-01-28 19:41 ` Óscar Fuentes 2010-01-29 4:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-01-28 19:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel >> I have just opened a new branch sftp://bzr.sv.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/pending >> which is intended to receive patches that cannot be installed in trunk >> because they're not bug-fixes. > Does this mean that there will be no release branch for Emacs 23.2, > and it will be released from the trunk instead? That could be, tho I haven't thought much about it yet. But note that in the context of Bzr, those questions don't have the same importance&meaning as within CVS. After all, creating a branch is nothing else than cloning, so initially the new branch is absolutely identical to the "parent". I expect at some point we'll do something like: (cd pending; bzr merge ../trunk; bzr commit) mv trunk emacs-23.2 mv pending trunk or maybe bzr clone trunk emacs-23.2 (cd trunk; bzr merge ../pending; bzr commit) rm -rf pending -- Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-28 19:13 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2010-01-28 19:41 ` Óscar Fuentes 2010-01-28 20:12 ` Chong Yidong 2010-01-28 22:53 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-01-29 4:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 1 sibling, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Óscar Fuentes @ 2010-01-28 19:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes: > That could be, tho I haven't thought much about it yet. > But note that in the context of Bzr, those questions don't have the same > importance&meaning as within CVS. After all, creating a branch is > nothing else than cloning, so initially the new branch is absolutely > identical to the "parent". This is correct. But you have to think too about the branches out there that are pointing to upstream branches... > I expect at some point we'll do something like: > > (cd pending; bzr merge ../trunk; bzr commit) > mv trunk emacs-23.2 > mv pending trunk > > or maybe > > bzr clone trunk emacs-23.2 > (cd trunk; bzr merge ../pending; bzr commit) > rm -rf pending ... for the people that at that time have branches of `trunk' and `pending', if they do not adjust their reference branches to match the change, they can get confused: the lesser problem is the disappearance of `pending', which it is just an annoyance, but `trunk' suddendly taking the role of the former `pending' branch can be a bit disturbing, as you are switching roles, and if someone does not notice it, he can commit to the "new" `trunk' something intended for the "old" trunk. I don't know if Emacs hackers are up to date enough with notices on the ml to be aware of the transition. In any case, people would have to do a bit of housekeeping when you rename a branch. In the future, I suggest creating branches with a name that conveys its purpose (trunk can be the perennial development branch, then we would have `emacs-XX.X', etc) and keep those names forever. This requires almost no housekeeping on the developers part, except for cloning emacs-XX.X when it is created, which is much simpler than adjusting branch references. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-28 19:41 ` Óscar Fuentes @ 2010-01-28 20:12 ` Chong Yidong 2010-01-28 21:08 ` Eli Zaretskii 2010-01-28 22:53 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Chong Yidong @ 2010-01-28 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Óscar Fuentes; +Cc: emacs-devel Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es> writes: > This is correct. But you have to think too about the branches out there > that are pointing to upstream branches... Yes, and the idea is to use trunk as a signal for development priorities. Right now, we want the focus to be on fixing bugs, so the Emacs 23.2 code is on trunk. The `pending' branch is for those few who are looking ahead to Emacs 24, but we don't want that to encourage that for the bulk of developers, yet. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-28 20:12 ` Chong Yidong @ 2010-01-28 21:08 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2010-01-28 21:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: ofv, emacs-devel > From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:12:30 -0500 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es> writes: > > > This is correct. But you have to think too about the branches out there > > that are pointing to upstream branches... > > Yes, and the idea is to use trunk as a signal for development > priorities. Right now, we want the focus to be on fixing bugs, so the > Emacs 23.2 code is on trunk. The `pending' branch is for those few who > are looking ahead to Emacs 24, but we don't want that to encourage that > for the bulk of developers, yet. But the disadvantages pointed out by Óscar of changing the semantics of trunk, pending, and other non-specific names, are real. So I'd really prefer that we use a special branch for releasing 23.2, leaving the trunk for future versions, because then the semantics of trunk would not change under our feet one day. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-28 19:41 ` Óscar Fuentes 2010-01-28 20:12 ` Chong Yidong @ 2010-01-28 22:53 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-01-28 23:22 ` Óscar Fuentes 1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-01-28 22:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Óscar Fuentes; +Cc: emacs-devel > ... for the people that at that time have branches of `trunk' and > `pending', if they do not adjust their reference branches to match the > change, they can get confused: the lesser problem is the disappearance > of `pending', which it is just an annoyance, but `trunk' suddendly > taking the role of the former `pending' branch can be a bit disturbing, > as you are switching roles, and if someone does not notice it, he can > commit to the "new" `trunk' something intended for the "old" trunk. trunk wouldn't take the role of the pending branch: it would take the content of the pending branch but keep its role of "where development is focused", so I don't think there's any problem. It matches previous CVS pratice in this regard. > In the future, I suggest creating branches with a name that conveys its > purpose (trunk can be the perennial development branch, then we would > have `emacs-XX.X', etc) and keep those names forever. This requires > almost no housekeeping on the developers part, except for cloning > emacs-XX.X when it is created, which is much simpler than adjusting > branch references. When I tried to do that, I bumped into the problem that I can't have a symlink "trunk" pointing to the "emacs-23" branch (because bzr.sv.gnu.org's http server doesn't honor symlinks). Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-28 22:53 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2010-01-28 23:22 ` Óscar Fuentes 2010-01-29 1:55 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Óscar Fuentes @ 2010-01-28 23:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes: > trunk wouldn't take the role of the pending branch: it would take the > content of the pending branch but keep its role of "where development is > focused", so I don't think there's any problem. It matches previous CVS > pratice in this regard. Well, one thing is wathever meaning you want to associate with each branch name, and another thing is the contents of the branch. Apart from creating confussion when the rename takes place, there are potential problems: First: mirrors will suddenly appear as diverged branches. Hopefully people will know about the change in advance or come here to ask before trying to "fix" the problem and possibly screw their setups of send upstream a bag of garbage made of revisions from the previous branch and merges of the new one. Automatic mirrors like the one in Launchpad will be broken. Likewise for the setups of users who track Emacs development. I foresee all sorts of grief and despair :-) Second: I don't know the effects of switching the master branch in midair for a bound branch. It would be a good thing to ask about this in the bzr ml for knowing about potential problems. >> In the future, I suggest creating branches with a name that conveys its >> purpose (trunk can be the perennial development branch, then we would >> have `emacs-XX.X', etc) and keep those names forever. This requires >> almost no housekeeping on the developers part, except for cloning >> emacs-XX.X when it is created, which is much simpler than adjusting >> branch references. > > When I tried to do that, I bumped into the problem that I can't have > a symlink "trunk" pointing to the "emacs-23" branch (because > bzr.sv.gnu.org's http server doesn't honor symlinks). I don't see how symlinks could help here. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-28 23:22 ` Óscar Fuentes @ 2010-01-29 1:55 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-01-29 1:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Óscar Fuentes; +Cc: emacs-devel > First: mirrors will suddenly appear as diverged branches. Hopefully No, check again: the branches move strictly forward, mirrors should be just fine. The only potential issue is whether the "mainline history" is preserved (see recent discussion about that). >> When I tried to do that, I bumped into the problem that I can't have >> a symlink "trunk" pointing to the "emacs-23" branch (because >> bzr.sv.gnu.org's http server doesn't honor symlinks). > I don't see how symlinks could help here. I want/need a stable name to refer to "the branch where development takes place". So if that branch can be emacs-23 for a while and emacs-24 later, I need something like symlinks in order to be able to have trunk point to emacs-23 first and emacs-24 later. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-28 19:13 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-01-28 19:41 ` Óscar Fuentes @ 2010-01-29 4:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 2010-01-29 5:13 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2010-01-29 4:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel Stefan Monnier writes: > But note that in the context of Bzr, those questions don't have the same > importance&meaning as within CVS. That's right; they're *far* more important! ;-) > After all, creating a branch is > nothing else than cloning, so initially the new branch is absolutely > identical to the "parent". > I expect at some point we'll do something like: > > (cd pending; bzr merge ../trunk; bzr commit) > mv trunk emacs-23.2 > mv pending trunk Gawd, no! For that to work, you really want to be rebasing pending on to trunk after *every* commit to trunk. Otherwise, what you propose here will AFAICT result in exactly the kind of Mainline Twist that you personally just set ARO to prevent. But that seems like makework to me. The whole point of having a pending branch should be that they can go their separate ways for a while, and during that while, commits of new code to the public branches are discouraged and require effort to (a) do and (b) test. If you are not trying to discourage work on new code, then you should cut a separate release branch. > or maybe > > bzr clone trunk emacs-23.2 > (cd trunk; bzr merge ../pending; bzr commit) > rm -rf pending Better, but that last line should give you pause. Sure, it's needed, because pending is now obsolete. But bzr gives no way to notify people of that except that their attempts to pull or push will fail (I hope). It seems to me that pending is not a great idea. Patches that don't belong in trunk can just stay in personal private or public branches until trunk opens again. If pending would really accumulate significant amounts of work, your release process has more problems than just "where to put pending work". ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-29 4:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull @ 2010-01-29 5:13 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-01-29 5:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stephen J. Turnbull; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel > until trunk opens again. If pending would really accumulate > significant amounts of work, your release process has more problems > than just "where to put pending work". What else is new? Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-01-28 2:37 New branch Stefan Monnier 2010-01-28 5:40 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2010-02-03 1:05 ` Kenichi Handa 2010-02-03 2:31 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2010-02-03 1:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel In article <jwvtyu7gdva.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: > I have just opened a new branch sftp://bzr.sv.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/pending > which is intended to receive patches that cannot be installed in trunk > because they're not bug-fixes. > I.e. the branch is there so instead of saying "please come back later" > we can just install the corresponding patch/package into this branch. Please teach me the bzr command sequence to do that. Should I repeast this same procedure used for checking out trunk branch? % cd emacs % bzr branch sftp://USERNAME@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/trunk trunk % cd trunk % echo "public_branch = sftp://USERNAME@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/trunk" >> .bzr/branch/branch.conf % bzr bind sftp://USERNAME@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/trunk % cd .. Or, can I use some shortcut to utilize the already-checked-out trunk branch? --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-02-03 1:05 ` Kenichi Handa @ 2010-02-03 2:31 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-02-03 4:24 ` Kenichi Handa 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-02-03 2:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kenichi Handa; +Cc: emacs-devel > Please teach me the bzr command sequence to do that. Should > I repeast this same procedure used for checking out trunk > branch? > % cd emacs > % bzr branch sftp://USERNAME@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/trunk trunk > % cd trunk > % echo "public_branch = sftp://USERNAME@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/trunk" >> .bzr/branch/branch.conf > % bzr bind sftp://USERNAME@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/trunk > % cd .. > Or, can I use some shortcut to utilize the > already-checked-out trunk branch? I'd go to your local shared repository (presumably the .../emacs where you have a `trunk' subdirectory) and then just do bzr co sftp://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/pending -- Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-02-03 2:31 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2010-02-03 4:24 ` Kenichi Handa 2010-02-03 14:20 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2010-02-03 4:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel In article <jwvk4uvuk3i.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: > I'd go to your local shared repository (presumably the .../emacs where > you have a `trunk' subdirectory) and then just do > bzr co sftp://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/pending Thank you. I've just done it. Now I have .../emacs/pending directory. Then, I can directly work in that directory for quick fixes, and it is better to create another task branch for more complex work, right? --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: New branch 2010-02-03 4:24 ` Kenichi Handa @ 2010-02-03 14:20 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2010-02-03 14:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kenichi Handa; +Cc: emacs-devel >> I'd go to your local shared repository (presumably the .../emacs where >> you have a `trunk' subdirectory) and then just do >> bzr co sftp://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/srv/bzr/emacs/pending > Thank you. I've just done it. Now I have .../emacs/pending > directory. Then, I can directly work in that directory for > quick fixes, and it is better to create another task branch > for more complex work, right? Exactly, Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-02-03 14:20 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-01-28 2:37 New branch Stefan Monnier 2010-01-28 5:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 2010-01-28 19:13 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-01-28 19:41 ` Óscar Fuentes 2010-01-28 20:12 ` Chong Yidong 2010-01-28 21:08 ` Eli Zaretskii 2010-01-28 22:53 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-01-28 23:22 ` Óscar Fuentes 2010-01-29 1:55 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-01-29 4:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull 2010-01-29 5:13 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-02-03 1:05 ` Kenichi Handa 2010-02-03 2:31 ` Stefan Monnier 2010-02-03 4:24 ` Kenichi Handa 2010-02-03 14:20 ` Stefan Monnier
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