From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r99650: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX. Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:56:26 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87aaucmlc5.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87zl2cmufp.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <224s67-o31.ln1@news.eternal-september.org> <87r5nomrxc.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <2gds67-qtm.ln1@news.eternal-september.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268485609 16339 80.91.229.12 (13 Mar 2010 13:06:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:06:49 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 13 14:06:45 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqQuT-0002IY-Am for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:06:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58980 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NqQtm-0003iZ-Tj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 07:56:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NqQti-0003iB-Kc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 07:56:54 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=37458 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NqQth-0003hX-69 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 07:56:54 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqQtU-0006g6-Gu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 07:56:42 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:49890) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqQtU-0006fr-5x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 07:56:40 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqQtR-00028M-Oc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:56:37 +0100 Original-Received: from pik.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de ([134.109.6.1]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:56:37 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by pik.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:56:37 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 40 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pik.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.92 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:4zS8YzpCgAG/xyv7PzKmppVoTus= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121901 Archived-At: Richard Riley writes: > David Kastrup writes: > >> Richard Riley writes: >> >>> xterm is not a "GUI application" in any but the most pedantic minds. >> >> Neither is Emacs. Both are focused about plain text input. > > Indeed. But its X interface is still on a desktop next to other X > apps. The huge majority of whose scroll bars are on the right. To be honest: there are not many X apps next to Emacs on my desktop since it is my main interface to the computer. > It seems almost a strange argument to be having. > > And emacs is a scrollable UI - its an editor after all. Yes, you can > scroll xterm and urvt etc I know, but its not the same thing at all. Hm? Why not? > The X interface to Emacs should comply with the huge majority of > neighbouring apps. And thats the scroll bar on the right. The X interface to Emacs should first of all be focused on usability. Putting the scrollbars on the left has not been an arbitrary choice. When other applications make inferior user interface choices, we need not follow them. Emacs will never be the same as other applications, and that is not a goal in itself. Emacs should be as good as it can be for doing work with it. If that means being different, that is fine. > All IMO of course ;) But clearly also in the minds of other X authors. The important people are not the authors but the serious users. -- David Kastrup