From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jason Earl Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Open Hypspec with w3m Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 21:15:21 -0700 Organization: XMission http://xmission.com/ Message-ID: <87aaiggzl2.fsf@notengoamigos.org> References: <87bp30bzdg.fsf@notengoamigos.org> <87mxmkft81.fsf@notengoamigos.org> <87vd17y70i.fsf@notengoamigos.org> <87r5bvb9u1.fsf@puma.rapttech.com.au> <87mxmjx9ob.fsf@notengoamigos.org> <87ei7ubx1k.fsf@puma.rapttech.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1296535361 21016 80.91.229.12 (1 Feb 2011 04:42:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 04:42:41 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 01 05:42:37 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pk82r-0008W6-4i for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2011 05:42:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33520 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Pk82d-00016R-I3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 23:40:35 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.svpal.org!xmission!nnrp.xmission!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 87 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: jearl.fttp.xmission.com Original-X-Trace: news.xmission.com 1296533722 1402 166.70.233.10 (1 Feb 2011 04:15:22 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@xmission.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 04:15:22 +0000 (UTC) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAAAAAByaaZbAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFz UkdCAK7OHOkAAAAgY0hSTQAAeiYAAICEAAD6AAAAgOgAAHUwAADqYAAAOpgAABdwnLpRPAAAAAlw SFlzAAASmwAAEpsB4JJZDAAAAAl2cEFnAAAAMAAAADAAzu6MVwAAAaFJREFUSMe1VtuxxSAIzIz9 2Iyl2Aj1bBX0k5+LrwjGjJyPy2ROwtGNBJbVCwwwy1UNoOL3f+SBxkj15Lr4NsboN24DWMZxYQNA TjGmjC1gswJiqBbpDeANYMwXBFyAFB5L7ADMBcoSDgAFBSDHR2tA8ABMSB4AawB76pAnILsKx2lm 1VfpgUi3kxrySylRHdmQj40Jva2/jl8EY3Twv/phhsC9nIQR0hnAOUptYsL3RxvAk+YIH2AWsvTH GYBgKn8GaPYm5jNANaCQ8WfAzyH9x0crFfGl9X4QVdg8gEqN2KjBHi6V/iBq6iyAxTqd+Yvupwai VwM9LZkxQ6otihmS6H+mHlK5URwi0UQgWxHoxS5JagBSed7IzJRCallS2pg2QsamcGUFNSHgLZUv augJIUualv1Bv6+yVat1oeMq92s/mBBWQJH7dQX7CnpvWWs/4CazpHlB2RR1BFSzNGdIaTbbLil8 U76BKKU0GztapXP3C78bNYQ6MTQybY8OkIaITf9HPzyHkXE4YXs4mf5VDz+jAepj3RTQ3Ubv0SPy 9AcCrfKh0TBgvgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAxMC0wNC0zMFQyMzo1NDo0My0wNjowMKID BVQAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMTAtMDQtMzBUMjM6NTQ6NDItMDY6MDB1KbZcAAAAAElF TkSuQmCC User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:f/s2mB7y0SEjMQ1iWeTv0d3jYVc= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:184740 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:78900 Archived-At: Thank you (again) very much for responding. On Sun, Jan 30 2011, Tim X wrote: [...] > It never does any harm to ask for pointers and suggestion in this > group. There are a number of regulars in this group, like Stefan, who > are active contributors/maintainers of emacs. They have both a wealth > of information and are aware of current development/improvements in > emacs. I really do appreciate the pointers. [...] > Note that emacs also has a cl compatibility package (require 'cl). It is > not a 100% cl compatibility layer, but does bring in some of the useful > cl functions that are not part of standard elisp. This can be very > handy. However, you do need to be careful as there are significant > differences between elisp and cl (I use to constantly get confused!). > > Practicle common lisp is a good text. I also found Paradigms of > Artificial Intelligence really good (don't be put off by the reference > to AI, it has a lot of really good lisp stuff). ANSI Common Lisp is > also quite good and while it took a couple of goes, On Lisp is really > good once you get to the point where you want to start getting to > grips with macros in a serious manner. Although somewhat criticised, I > also found Let Over Lambda an interesting read. Thanks for the advice. It certainly does help to know what to study next. [...] >> I hate to admit it, but I basically use Emacs because it was basically >> the only tool around when I first started using Linux. I got used to >> it, and even for pure end users it is a pretty impressive tool. Now >> that I am beginning to see it as a learning tool/development environment >> I am a little surprised it is not more popular ;). >> > > Yes. A similar situation. I came from vi to emacs (I started with old > Unix systems long before Linux). However, due to some bad luck, I lost > my sight and at the time (mid 90s) the only good interface on Linux > for blind users was emacs and an extension package called emacspeak, > which uses defadvice a lot to add speech support. The learning curve > was very steep at first and emacs seemed very alien compared to the > vi. However now I am very much at home with it. Last year, after over > 15 years, I was lucky enough to get a considerable amount of sigh > back, but even though I could go back to using vi, I've been totally > sucked in by the power and flexibility of emacs. I am glad that you got (most of) your sight back. I want to use phrases like eye-opening or enlightening, but I do not want you to think that I am making the obvious bad pun. > There are frequent arguments/debates in this group regarding emacs' > failure as an IDE. I think the critics are possibly missing the main > point. While other IDEs, like eclipse or visual studio etc, may offer > lots of great features and do so pretty much out of the box, you still > need to very much structure your workflow to fit the tool. For me, > emacs has the advantage of allowing me to structure the tool to fit > with my preferred workflow, plus I can do most of my development > related tasks which are not strictly speaking coding, with it as > well. I find the combination of org-mode, the various development > modes, vcs, w3m and mail all being within one tool, emacs, incredibly > useful. I have built up a toolbox of handy and useful bits of elisp > and collected even more from posts to this and other groups. I really > like the fact that all my important stuff is in plain text format and > managed under version control. For the last year or so, I've been > making increasing use of org-mode. It has revolutionised how I work > . A mode I cannot recommend highly enough for any emacs user. I have high hopes that with the inclusion of CEDET that Emacs can start making progress on the IDE front. I basically feel the same way about Emacs as you do. I've used Eclipse and Netbeans, and I did not like them, even for Java development. Sure, there were some things that they did *much* better than Emacs, but mostly they just seemed to get in the way. I've played a bit with CEDET's EDE, however, and it was definitely cool to build Autoconf projects from Emacs. Eventually I really would like to be able to help move things forward. Jason