From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GnuTLS for W32 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 20:21:07 +0900 Message-ID: <87aa634st8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <83wr9bqez3.fsf@gnu.org> <87y5tr9dwv.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <87k45alwgb.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87fwfyltm1.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87boqmlrma.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ty4e9j19.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83obumqa0v.fsf@gnu.org> <87ipktag2e.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87fwfxtxuz.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87aa64ubg9.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83boqkr9bp.fsf@gnu.org> <874nwcu17i.fsf@wanadoo.es> <834nwcr6un.fsf@gnu.org> <87vcosskhc.fsf@wanadoo.es> <831urgr2yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87r4zgsh2w.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ipks3zbo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87boqk3q69.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325676091 10461 80.91.229.12 (4 Jan 2012 11:21:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 11:21:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 04 12:21:27 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOuI-0000TD-4S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 12:21:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55505 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOuH-0000LR-KF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:21:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:44491) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOuB-0000JK-Ud for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:21:19 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOu8-0008Pg-1G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:21:15 -0500 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:59958) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiOu6-0008PF-EL; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:21:10 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C719707DD; Wed, 4 Jan 2012 20:21:07 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9FD921A2FD1; Wed, 4 Jan 2012 20:21:07 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta31) "ginger" 2dbefd79b3d3 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147262 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > For this reason, I think we should give Emacs users an option to put > the downloaded DLL in some directory that is not Emacs-specific, so > that other programs could use it. Well, as you know I'm not a Windows person, but my understanding is that one reason that DLL hell is called "DLL hell" is that programs install their own versions of DLLs *in the system directories* that for one reason or another are inappropriate for other programs. So in fact you're asking a lot of knowledge on the user's part to get this right. This is not unknown on other OSes. For example, on most GNU/Linux systems glibc will depend on a specific version of the kernel headers, which may or may not correspond to the kernel actually running on the system. So glibc has its private version of the kernel headers, which it then imposes on the whole system. This actually seems to work pretty well, but only because everybody knows that the most important thing is for libc to work! gnutls isn't going to have that priority. I think that the thing to do is for Emacs to install private versions of DLLs when it installs any at all, and if/when people complain about "bloat", add some logic (maybe in the installer routine) to check to see if there is an appropriate DLL already on the Windows DLL path. (Yes, I understand that implementing this isn't going to be all that simple either, but in principle I don't think Emacs should add to DLL hell.)