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From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: clang vs free software
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 07:45:20 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87a9ejb5rz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 52E448A0.6010405@dancol.org

Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org> writes:

> On 01/25/2014 03:02 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:
>> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
>> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
>> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>>
>> We don't want to make a program's entire AST available for parsing
>> because that would make it easy to extend GCC with proprietary
>> programs.
>
> It would also have made it easy to add modern features to Emacs and
> other free editors. Symbol table information is flatly inadequate
> given that in modern languages, typing information is highly
> contextual.
>
> Users will adopt tools that provide these features when FSF programs
> support these features or not. If you keep these features out of GCC,
> users will go to Clang. If you keep Clang integration out of Emacs,
> users will either maintain out-of-tree integration or (eventually)
> just fork Emacs, as the various starter-kit packages have already
> essentially done.

It has been explained to you what the rationale behind making GCC
unsuitable as a black box component of parsing solutions is: there is no
point in licensing GCC under the GPL if we pull the basic teeth the GPL
has by allowing integration into a larger whole without having to obey
the GPL.

An adequate reaction to that would be to see what technical
possibilities there are for making GCC support the use cases you have in
mind without throwing it wide open, rendering its licensing choice
useless.

Instead, you ignore the reasons you have been given and choose to throw
a tantrum.  This will not serve to achieve anything but leave everybody
more annoyed.

> Free software is great, but if nobody uses it, the entire enterprise
> is futile, sad, and ultimately irrelevant.

That's exactly the situation GCC has started with.  So why would it have
become relevant?

> How will the world be a better place when almost every every free
> operating system and free development environment is based on Clang
> and explicitly non-free derivatives are rampant?

Because there will still be a free software solution available without
the need to hope that everybody will be playing nice when extending it.

-- 
David Kastrup




  parent reply	other threads:[~2014-01-26  6:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 256+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-11-18 16:13 Emacs completion matches selection UI Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-18 20:00 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2013-11-18 20:54   ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-18 21:15   ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-19  0:43     ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-19  9:52       ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-11-19 13:41         ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-19 14:00           ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-11-19 14:58             ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-19 17:50               ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-19 21:07                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-20  0:28                   ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-20  1:30                     ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-20  3:22                       ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-20 17:52                         ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-20 19:10                           ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-20 20:00                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-20 15:57                     ` Josh
2013-11-21  0:52                       ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-21  3:48                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22  0:10                           ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-22  7:36                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 12:33                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-25 13:28                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-25 15:18                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-16 15:17                                     ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-16 18:35                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-16 22:15                                         ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-17  2:10                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-17 10:49                                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-17 18:29                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-17 20:59                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18  1:58                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-18  3:09                                                     ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18  4:47                                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-18 14:43                                                         ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18 15:51                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-18 16:38                                                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18 17:05                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-18 17:18                                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18 17:37                                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-18 19:05                                                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-18 21:11                                                               ` chad
2013-12-19  3:40                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-19 15:49                                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-19 17:30                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-19 18:44                                                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-19 21:44                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-20  1:15                                                                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-20  3:06                                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-20  3:08                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-20 11:49                                                                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-20 13:18                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-20 14:59                                                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-22  1:45                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-22  2:29                                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-22 11:07                                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-22 16:07                                                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-22 22:50                                                                                             ` enabling company-capf support in cfengine.el (was: Emacs completion matches selection UI) Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-23  0:17                                                                                               ` enabling company-capf support in cfengine.el Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-23  1:11                                                                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-23  1:32                                                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-16 13:12                                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-16 16:06                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-16 17:39                                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-17 13:04                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-18 14:13                                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-19  2:37                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-19 16:44                                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-19 20:19                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-19 20:44                                                                                                                 ` David Engster
2014-01-20  0:13                                                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-20  2:14                                                                                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-01-20  2:39                                                                                                                     ` John Yates
2014-01-20  3:22                                                                                                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-01-20  7:10                                                                                                                         ` David Kastrup
2014-01-20 14:22                                                                                                                         ` John Yates
2014-01-20 14:55                                                                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2014-01-20 15:09                                                                                                                           ` clang vs free software (was: enabling company-capf support in cfengine.el) Stefan Monnier
2014-01-20 19:47                                                                                                                             ` clang vs free software David Engster
2014-01-21 14:42                                                                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-21 15:02                                                                                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-21 15:20                                                                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-22 15:31                                                                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-22 17:24                                                                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-21 15:34                                                                                                                                 ` John Yates
2014-01-21 16:00                                                                                                                                   ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-01-21 16:25                                                                                                                                     ` joakim
2014-01-21 16:34                                                                                                                                       ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-01-21 16:38                                                                                                                                         ` joakim
2014-01-21 18:50                                                                                                                                           ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-01-21 18:00                                                                                                                                         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2014-01-21 18:44                                                                                                                                           ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-01-23 10:55                                                                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-23 11:01                                                                                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2014-01-23 14:26                                                                                                                                       ` Helmut Eller
2014-01-25 23:02                                                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-25 23:28                                                                                                                                           ` Daniel Colascione
2014-01-26  1:35                                                                                                                                             ` Lennart Borgman
2014-01-26  6:45                                                                                                                                             ` David Kastrup [this message]
2014-01-26 12:13                                                                                                                                               ` Daniel Colascione
2014-01-26 12:35                                                                                                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2014-01-26 14:45                                                                                                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-26 20:06                                                                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-26 20:06                                                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-26 10:22                                                                                                                                           ` Helmut Eller
2014-01-26 11:12                                                                                                                                             ` David Kastrup
2014-01-26 12:36                                                                                                                                               ` Helmut Eller
2014-01-26 14:54                                                                                                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2014-01-26 20:06                                                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-26 15:12                                                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-26 15:15                                                                                                                                             ` Lennart Borgman
2014-01-26 15:35                                                                                                                                               ` David Kastrup
2014-01-26 15:46                                                                                                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2014-01-23 16:35                                                                                                                                       ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2014-01-23 18:04                                                                                                                                         ` David Engster
2014-01-22  2:06                                                                                                                                 ` unic0rn
2014-01-20 15:57                                                                                                                           ` enabling company-capf support in cfengine.el Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-01-20  3:32                                                                                                                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2014-01-20 13:59                                                                                                                         ` John Yates
2014-01-20 14:30                                                                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2014-01-20 17:01                                                                                                                             ` John Yates
2014-01-20  2:17                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-19 16:54                                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-19 20:21                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-19 23:57                                                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-20  2:20                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-20  2:33                                                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-20 13:41                                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-23  1:36                                                                                             ` Emacs completion matches selection UI Stefan Monnier
2013-12-23  2:12                                                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-23 13:33                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-20  1:19                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-20  1:17                                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-20 14:32                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-20 15:54                                                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-21  3:32                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-21  4:58                                                                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-22  2:05                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-22 23:15                                                                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-23  1:59                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-23 12:28                                                                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-23 13:42                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-23 14:52                                                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-30 20:47                                                                                     ` Toby Cubitt
2013-12-31  0:20                                                                                       ` Leo Liu
2013-12-31  7:48                                                                                         ` joakim
2013-12-31 14:30                                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-31 15:52                                                                                         ` Toby Cubitt
2013-12-31 17:45                                                                                           ` joakim
2014-01-02 18:54                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-02 18:10                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-03 17:49                                                                                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-03 19:36                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04  0:48                                                                                               ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-04  3:45                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06  4:47                                                                                                   ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-06 23:38                                                                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-07  3:57                                                                                                   ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-04  9:21                                                                                               ` João Távora
2014-01-06 23:21                                                                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-02 20:20                                                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-02 22:58                                                                                             ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-03  2:40                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-03 14:30                                                                                                 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-03 16:23                                                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-03 16:48                                                                                                     ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-03 19:32                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-03 22:06                                                                                                         ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-04  3:39                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06  4:00                                                                                                             ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-03 16:35                                                                                               ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-03 17:46                                                                                                 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2014-01-04  2:39                                                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-04  3:54                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-05  4:08                                                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-05 16:04                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06  4:25                                                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-06  5:25                                                                                                         ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-06  2:39                                                                                                 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-06  4:03                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06  5:35                                                                                                     ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-06  5:55                                                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-06 14:47                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 15:54                                                                                                         ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-06 20:53                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 23:45                                                                                                     ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-06  7:36                                                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-06 15:51                                                                                                     ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-07  0:17                                                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-07  3:32                                                                                                         ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-07 23:23                                                                                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2014-01-08  2:58                                                                                                             ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-08  3:38                                                                                                               ` Bob Bobeck
2014-01-08  3:47                                                                                                                 ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-08  9:27                                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2014-01-08 15:37                                                                                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-08  4:49                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-08 15:33                                                                                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-08 16:11                                                                                                                   ` Toby Cubitt
2014-01-09  7:12                                                                                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-12-23 13:45                                                                               ` John Yates
2013-12-23 16:02                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-24  2:47                                                                                   ` John Yates
2013-12-28 14:02                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-28 16:43                                                                                       ` John Yates
2013-12-30 12:55                                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2013-12-30 16:32                                                                                           ` João Távora
2014-01-04 23:02                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-05  2:13                                                                                               ` João Távora
2014-01-05 16:11                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 23:48                                                                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-07  3:15                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-07 16:13                                                                                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2014-01-07 17:18                                                                                                       ` João Távora
2014-01-07 18:10                                                                                                         ` Josh
2014-01-07 19:42                                                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2014-01-08  3:54                                                                                                             ` Josh
2014-01-07  3:16                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-07 16:12                                                                                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-28 15:59                                                                                     ` João Távora
2013-12-28 17:00                                                                                       ` John Yates
2013-12-28 17:40                                                                                         ` Josh
2013-12-19  4:53                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-19  5:45                                                                   ` chad
2013-12-19  7:03                                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-19  7:59                                                                       ` Aaron Ecay
2013-12-19 15:29                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-19 17:41                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-19 18:46                                                                         ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-12-20  0:53                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-19  6:23                                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-19 16:24             ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-21 10:17               ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-11-21 16:30                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22  5:38                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-22 15:19                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23 10:03                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-19 13:48       ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-19 18:03         ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-20  0:10         ` Gregor Zattler
2013-11-20  1:25           ` Ted Zlatanov
2013-11-20 17:59             ` John Yates
2013-11-19  0:47     ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-19 11:18       ` Tom
2013-11-19 14:00         ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-20  0:45           ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-20  7:34             ` martin rudalics
2013-11-20  7:50               ` Tom
2013-11-21  0:45               ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-21  7:41                 ` martin rudalics
2013-11-22  0:18                   ` Juri Linkov
2013-11-22 10:26                     ` martin rudalics
2013-11-19 19:44       ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-11-20  7:39         ` Eric Abrahamsen
2013-11-19 17:33 ` Sebastian Wiesner

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