From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:24:45 -0600 Message-ID: <87a8ma9b9u.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <64a52598-ad53-498c-993c-67d7827dbdfc@default> <838u1uuuau.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1um2xl.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> <3be41f0b-452f-78b2-4eea-49f207e060a0@yandex.ru> <87lh5u9d6m.fsf@red-bean.com> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457389522 16643 80.91.229.3 (7 Mar 2016 22:25:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 22:25:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 07 23:25:17 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ad3aU-0006Wu-Ts for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 23:25:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58983 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad3aM-0001Rx-5o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 17:25:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45463) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad3a7-0001RK-EL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 17:24:52 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad3a3-0001rx-Cw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 17:24:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-io0-x235.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c06::235]:35262) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad3a3-0001rt-82 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 17:24:47 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-io0-x235.google.com with SMTP id g203so4618064iof.2 for ; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 14:24:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=CPJXaJZ3lVm19O6dqVg2qAJvl3DRTzRmMXEU6vkWg2w=; b=gPt34T0afV6Cm+UDfRj1TETF75f3GkSsP05kym+0aobNOnEJ83GMKDYt3BtHAc4jVN UgmJ590OW0ExIcoO2NkpnictDObPsDSB5+m8EA83DwondKQoAOhlrV342EicIBCz4Tu9 M/GAJjgxBNqdHRtrWVTg1QHMJ0sj1ljpY6Voq0H8t0qYcDQOOUdalCIXy9RCRqsG7R0v OUNo+/Y3pW5D6+1JQ+TOBpfFvJEaYwWI5A6xpKhomSMKj3975DznBm5BYvGsu/qOorZP 3hZTPFnf8VbbLHd0cwzhwPkwS1kIWJY5UJrrNH0E8xbyfrC4ErG++a8SloVsNlnc085v eK6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to :date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=CPJXaJZ3lVm19O6dqVg2qAJvl3DRTzRmMXEU6vkWg2w=; b=FZiEhP+nP9/tmPz8m7woJCS4hulNLMQ4DNQaTiuTcfED61j7chWQwPWC8I9RDU0kdD 1fEjsejNpWBlPH1Y2mcKqupMF8c0dtZT4IR+odJ6YhQcTki4xPhKDOIf25YIb8LgDlU5 cts+wdQ+jk+wnp8BnSp5DRMNLAVR32Gr8uqkNbKLkEoWGfHzbjVdYG25vUvk4WWmsvgs +b9yYE3NyiKfEgyayBihPFAib7o3ZwBhL0ql3X4TrPY+aopIEzwBD1AR/je5B6eaZWmQ IcXZ17AZJsONFDFzHA9NNq5JPkVzSxXX2gYCdUOpr6iRJwqgc2kOhj/elMxdMCXBXeSi JFPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJ5sO0DgLhAL3J4XmVXkQ/h3XFu7EvzKou79hvOPzj6TwWk9sd6C99GqybvinoFBA== X-Received: by 10.107.3.145 with SMTP id e17mr11751834ioi.125.1457389486752; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 14:24:46 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from floss (74-92-190-114-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [74.92.190.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z15sm5523795igg.9.2016.03.07.14.24.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Mar 2016 14:24:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Tue, 8 Mar 2016 00:01:53 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.92 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::235 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201093 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: >On 03/07/2016 11:43 PM, Karl Fogel wrote: >> Let's please take it for granted that everyone who's suggesting to >> get rid of ChangeLog files is also assuming that we would, of >> course, use the same conventions for writing git commit messages >> that we would use for writing ChangeLog entries. (As far as I can >> tell, everyone who wants to get rid of ChangeLog files has either >> expressed that assumption explicitly or implied it pretty clearly. >> ) > >Not so. Many messages in this thread are saying different. I looked again -- who are these "many"? I don't see any messages from someone who both advocates that we get rid of ChangeLogs *and* suggests that we should not use the same format for commit messages as we currently do for ChangeLogs. (Andy Moreton suggested something about how we could have improved standards about what we put in a change description in general, but that's different and orthogonal to this discussion.) Please let me know if I missed a post, though. >A ChangeLog entry has a well-defined format. It can also start with a >free-form description. Whether the latter is a part of it or not, is >not 100% important. Point is, it is a distinct entity, and I can refer >to it. A commit message is a distinct entity, and you can refer to it. >The high-level description may also come separately, in a message to >the bug tracker or the mailing list. That one may go into more detail. Well, one can just include that in the commit message. My point is just that if it's appropriate for a ChangeLog entry, then it's appropriate for a commit message, and vice versa. I mean, at least for my commits, the former have always just been a literal copy of the latter, even when doing it manually :-). Best regards, -Karl