* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior
@ 2016-10-01 4:59 Dmitri Paduchikh
2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 4:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 24577
Hello,
C-u C-h c does not work in read-only buffers. And even if the buffer is
writable it's rarely an appropriate place to insert info about key
bindings. I think it would be better if C-u C-h c placed its output into
kill ring and printed it in the echo area instead of the current
behavior.
Regards,
Dmitri Paduchikh
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior
2016-10-01 4:59 bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior Dmitri Paduchikh
@ 2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov
2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Ivan Shmakov @ 2016-10-01 5:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 24577; +Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh
>>>>> Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com> writes:
> C-u C-h c does not work in read-only buffers. And even if the buffer
> is writable it's rarely an appropriate place to insert info about key
> bindings. I think it would be better if C-u C-h c placed its output
> into kill ring and printed it in the echo area instead of the current
> behavior.
I believe that this behavior is a common idiom in Emacs.
For example, M-! date RET shows the current date and time in
echo area, while C-u M-! date RET inserts it at point – with
both actions making sense depending on the situation.
I guess C-u C-h c behavior is mainly useful when writing about
Emacs itself (including writing bug reports, or conversing on
IRC, etc.), but I can easily see it being handy nevertheless.
Also, for read-only buffers, one can use C-h c without C-u, and
then copy the result from the *Messages* buffer.
On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding
the result of some operation directly to the kill ring.
--
FSF associate member #7257 http://am-1.org/~ivan/ … 3013 B6A0 230E 334A
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior
2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov
@ 2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-01 8:38 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
2016-10-01 7:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2016-10-01 20:14 ` Marcin Borkowski
2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-10-01 6:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ivan Shmakov; +Cc: dpaduchikh, 24577
> From: Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net>
> Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2016 05:40:40 +0000
> Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com>
>
> >>>>> Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > C-u C-h c does not work in read-only buffers. And even if the buffer
> > is writable it's rarely an appropriate place to insert info about key
> > bindings. I think it would be better if C-u C-h c placed its output
> > into kill ring and printed it in the echo area instead of the current
> > behavior.
>
> I believe that this behavior is a common idiom in Emacs.
> For example, M-! date RET shows the current date and time in
> echo area, while C-u M-! date RET inserts it at point – with
> both actions making sense depending on the situation.
>
> I guess C-u C-h c behavior is mainly useful when writing about
> Emacs itself (including writing bug reports, or conversing on
> IRC, etc.), but I can easily see it being handy nevertheless.
>
> Also, for read-only buffers, one can use C-h c without C-u, and
> then copy the result from the *Messages* buffer.
>
> On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding
> the result of some operation directly to the kill ring.
100% agreement.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior
2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov
2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-10-01 7:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2016-10-01 20:14 ` Marcin Borkowski
2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Schwab @ 2016-10-01 7:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ivan Shmakov; +Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh, 24577
On Okt 01 2016, Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:
> Also, for read-only buffers, one can use C-h c without C-u, and
> then copy the result from the *Messages* buffer.
Or temporarily switch to a writable buffer.
Andreas.
--
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior
2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-10-01 8:38 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
2016-10-01 9:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 8:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 24577, Ivan Shmakov
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net>
>> Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2016 05:40:40 +0000
>> Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com>
>>
>> >>>>> Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > C-u C-h c does not work in read-only buffers. And even if the buffer
>> > is writable it's rarely an appropriate place to insert info about key
>> > bindings. I think it would be better if C-u C-h c placed its output
>> > into kill ring and printed it in the echo area instead of the current
>> > behavior.
>>
>> I believe that this behavior is a common idiom in Emacs.
>> For example, M-! date RET shows the current date and time in
>> echo area, while C-u M-! date RET inserts it at point – with
>> both actions making sense depending on the situation.
There is a difference here. You are calling C-u M-! at the place where
you want its output, whereas C-u C-h c has to be called at the place
when the key is defined, and that place is rarely the same where you
want to insert the key description.
>> I guess C-u C-h c behavior is mainly useful when writing about
>> Emacs itself (including writing bug reports, or conversing on
>> IRC, etc.), but I can easily see it being handy nevertheless.
I agree that main use of C-u C-h c is when writing about Emacs itself,
but the part about being handy nevertheless I didn't understand. I
didn't propose to remove it, just make it more handy.
>> Also, for read-only buffers, one can use C-h c without C-u, and
>> then copy the result from the *Messages* buffer.
In other words, you are suggesting not to use C-u C-h c and simply work
around the issue. But since you prefer not to use it, then you won't
suffer from the behavior change.
>> On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding
>> the result of some operation directly to the kill ring.
I have seen the proposed behavior in emacs-w3m where w3m-print-this-url
behaves in this manner. It is convenient. Please note that message in
the echo area may contain the indication that the description has been
copied into kill ring. I think this would remove any possible confusion.
EZ> 100% agreement.
Regards,
Dmitri Paduchikh
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior
2016-10-01 8:38 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
@ 2016-10-01 9:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-01 11:42 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
2022-02-08 6:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-10-01 9:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dmitri Paduchikh; +Cc: 24577, ivan
> From: Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com>
> Cc: Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net>, 24577@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2016 13:38:45 +0500
>
> >> On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding
> >> the result of some operation directly to the kill ring.
>
> I have seen the proposed behavior in emacs-w3m where w3m-print-this-url
> behaves in this manner.
Then perhaps we could have both behaviors, one after a single "C-u",
the other after two "C-u"s.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior
2016-10-01 9:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-10-01 11:42 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
2016-10-01 12:09 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
2022-02-08 6:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 11:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 24577, ivan
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
EZ> Then perhaps we could have both behaviors, one after a single "C-u",
EZ> the other after two "C-u"s.
This would be fine. Especially if C-u invoked the new behavior, and the
current behavior was moved to C-u C-u as less useful.
Regards,
Dmitri Paduchikh
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior
2016-10-01 11:42 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
@ 2016-10-01 12:09 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 12:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 24577, ivan
I can propose one more variant of behavior: C-u C-h c asks user for
buffer where to insert the description.
Regards,
Dmitri Paduchikh
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior
2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov
2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-01 7:55 ` Andreas Schwab
@ 2016-10-01 20:14 ` Marcin Borkowski
2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2016-10-01 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ivan Shmakov; +Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh, 24577
On 2016-10-01, at 07:40, Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> wrote:
> On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding
> the result of some operation directly to the kill ring.
For the record:
dired-copy-filename-as-kill
quick-calc (note that C-u'ing it inserts the result at point!)
Best,
--
Marcin Borkowski
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior
2016-10-01 9:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-01 11:42 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
@ 2022-02-08 6:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-02-08 6:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh, 24577, ivan
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> >> On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding
>> >> the result of some operation directly to the kill ring.
>>
>> I have seen the proposed behavior in emacs-w3m where w3m-print-this-url
>> behaves in this manner.
>
> Then perhaps we could have both behaviors, one after a single "C-u",
> the other after two "C-u"s.
(I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved
at the time.)
In my opinion, this would complicate this command needlessly because I
don't think this would be used a lot. The user can always jump to the
*Messages* buffer if they want to yank the message, and that works for
all commands like this, not just `C-h c'.
So I'm therefore closing this bug report.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
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-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2016-10-01 4:59 bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior Dmitri Paduchikh
2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov
2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-01 8:38 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
2016-10-01 9:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-01 11:42 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
2016-10-01 12:09 ` Dmitri Paduchikh
2022-02-08 6:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-01 7:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2016-10-01 20:14 ` Marcin Borkowski
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