From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2016 21:38:40 +0100 Message-ID: <87a8ed2r73.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <871t0apsxm.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87shsm7hi6.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83a8eucwi2.fsf@gnu.org> <878tudgwlq.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8360pgoyo4.fsf@gnu.org> <87d1jn3ws9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83a8eqoi08.fsf@gnu.org> <87d1jlacsh.fsf@russet.org.uk> <867f9t4n4t.fsf@realize.ch> <874m4x8sq5.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8637kh4j1u.fsf@realize.ch> <87wpht4b1i.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86y4292m2u.fsf@realize.ch> <8737kd8vfh.fsf@russet.org.uk> <867f9n2r6s.fsf@realize.ch> <87a8egw2az.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8360p3i2gt.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476045976 25075 195.159.176.226 (9 Oct 2016 20:46:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2016 20:46:16 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: a.s@realize.ch, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 09 22:46:12 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1btKyx-0004ua-5Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2016 22:46:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45479 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1btKyv-0007hA-Ah for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2016 16:46:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44429) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1btKxs-0007gt-Pc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2016 16:44:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1btKxq-0000gc-Qh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2016 16:44:55 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:38878) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1btKxo-0000Hu-MY; Sun, 09 Oct 2016 16:44:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID :Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=8EyMzvTFXmkIiCdqRtrt2U71ZycJDoXB/FCMOkyryxY=; b=ySBZ010H6gas7r/Gudsuvk+g4d kFvKsT0tdNf2jHs2WYczfvDJ/QS0uKnqXMi4BRhRv67H1MNqjqSZgF5O2tdSWA24FNkUr5blP6nf1 2AU8icm5X2JF+F7XnrDwSQZUuH/6gy/L44Bt9lKU0Ocb4Bnk/JnEOAnz8aAXKpGQzKBwG/KhL8UGd PntrcRuW8kdpKaVbMp5V0R/wIBvVA8d5FOSDwNep6D/JFOyShE+ra5tZq5f0doEvNtqCaWw+4v+xQ KYD+9/M8ZYWC/zI384k4SrGrb3L9thKseFVt/CwIPVO1/jxUSTO85TTHLdVEpCwzqXRjjLZWmipA7 0v5/Ozvg==; Original-Received: from cpc14-benw10-2-0-cust305.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([92.234.125.50]:50756 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1btKx9-002T14-8Q; Sun, 09 Oct 2016 21:44:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <8360p3i2gt.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 08 Oct 2016 13:01:38 +0300") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208124 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Packages in already in package.el format can be directly used within >> Emacs. > > What do you mean by "directly used"? Directly as opposed to what? Without installation -- that is, as part of core emacs. >> This requires no changes in the file layout, and means that >> packages will only be built with a single system (i.e. both Emacs core >> and ELPA will be build with package.el). > > Why would the Emacs build require package.el to do anything at all? Why not? It's a convienient way of building packages. > And what kind of build do you have in mind here? We have: > > . build out of Git repo > . build of the release tarball as distributed from ftp.gnu.org > . build of the release tarball after updating some packages from ELPA All of these, I think. >> As a secondary benefit, this means I can build and test an ELPA checkout >> directly as part of the Emacs build, which should be useful for finding >> regressions. > > ELPA packages should be logically part of Emacs, just in a different > Git repo. So this goal should be supported, of course. But I don't > understand why it would require using a separate directory tree for > ELPA packages. It enables the convienience of taking a directory containing a package from ELPA and putting it within the Emacs build unchanged. This seems clean and simple. It should also enable "git submodule/subtree" type options. >> It also, of course, means that files from ELPA would now be duplicated >> in core Emacs because they would have been copied. > > ??? Copied from where to where? And why? I don't understand why they > would need to be copied anywhere, they just need to be downloaded > directly to where they belong in the Emacs directory structure. Downloading is copying right? >> So, when developing Emacs, there would be version controlled .el >> source files and non-version controlled copied .el files in the same >> location. > > We already have that; see charscript.el. Why having some moe > unversioned *.el files would hurt or be any different? There are generated .el files in Emacs, and there are specific cases where this is necessary, but it's not a great thing. Mostly, I think, .el files should be source code. At the moment, it's only a few files. Making this more common seems bad. >> You would have to remember to edit the former, but not the latter. > > ??? Unversioned files can be edited to your heart's content, they will > just be overwritten on the next update. Yep, which is bad, if you didn't intend this to happen. Phil