From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/integrated-elpa 4f6df43 15/23: README added Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:54:54 +0100 Message-ID: <87a8e2kjup.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <20160916203414.25203.87032@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <831szrhwsr.fsf@gnu.org> <8760p12qzw.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vax0en1u.fsf@gnu.org> <87pon5ek3q.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87twcgttjf.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86a8e7symk.fsf@realize.ch> <8737jzl4u9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <8337jz8dg8.fsf@gnu.org> <83insv3tnl.fsf@gnu.org> <83d1j33qgg.fsf@gnu.org> <87wph96cto.fsf@russet.org.uk> <831szh3iq4.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvi5spl9.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83mvi51y3b.fsf@gnu.org> <87instslxu.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87eg3hsf8i.fsf@Rainer.invalid> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476788457 27315 195.159.176.226 (18 Oct 2016 11:00:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:00:57 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Achim Gratz Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 18 13:00:48 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwS8A-0003Kx-GH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 13:00:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40315 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwS8C-0002j1-Ee for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 07:00:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41936) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwS2t-0007QD-96 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 06:55:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwS2q-0005Tu-5D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 06:54:59 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:52331) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwS2p-0005Tc-Ug for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 06:54:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=DdTzE2/gpSMKIuyA1oeTe854Vd9BW+dlHk6OToZ/l+o=; b=iTpa2zEu/sk/2IQkwvXQH9G7+Y 6LnDSLUortXVFZ/m/xumrnsvP8Zjnd9CZ6Uo768g3f2sg7Aj64xUHgNe9eW48Ch3QJF/InA5wJpLh 0JHB34p21EN/M6Eb8pYfPVKhcNCw72+i6ETXRl/ID2fwFrhtG5G2wL/ZMAqynVpdUyZanEXwNcNiT tDqSYdJG75Eb51wLnx5ikulW3Sv3j/LSonqjsOtixO7FlXQx+GdRYFbOJz6DfcrZtu1tHUsYA8w1v Ezps+k/8rrufmC3WP/wYJYDWREcclTPpb+hdILJSeJjY1QOXVRzfVH1RgGAPAuxktadIotUeFGP7E vj9xkmMg==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:49438 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1bwS2o-001O1L-Vi; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:54:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87eg3hsf8i.fsf@Rainer.invalid> (Achim Gratz's message of "Sat, 15 Oct 2016 19:18:21 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208405 Archived-At: Achim Gratz writes: > Phillip Lord writes: >> And this could only work for org.el *because* org is in it's own >> directory with its own autoloads file. For seq.el, for instance, it will >> not work. > > No, some autoloads still get collected into the top-level autoloads > file. The same two-layer mechanism is used by calc.el, IIRC. Most of them are in loaddefs. Quite a few "packages" have their own. >> IIUC, in fact it's the org-mode folks actually view this as a >> significant *disadvantage* to having org-mode in core. It's only because >> this is the only way to get it into the tarball that they do it. Achim, >> do I have this right? > > Please talk to the current Org maintainers about this, I was unable to > spend much time on Org during the last year or so. In any case, I don't > think this should be viewed as an issue with Org, that's certain to rub > someone the wrong way. Apologies if it read like this; I don't think this is a problem with org, I think it's a problem with Emacs. > My personal biew is that anything that shows up as a "built-in package" > should behave just like it had been installed by package.el from the POV > of a user. So, a user should be able to cleanly deactivate or upgrade > each such package via package.el. > >> There are a few other things that package.el does, which it would be >> shame to loose. It checks dependencies for instance. So, say, I >> installed assess.el into Emacs core using package.el as I suggest, and >> it requires a newer version of seq.el than is available, package.el will >> bitch about this very early. > > Paackage.el has it's own limitations which unfortunately are also > highlighted by Org. Some of the files that go into ELPA Org are > actually generated by an upstream makefile so that the tarball that ELPA > distributes can be successfully installed within those limitations. Do tell. Which files are generated? Using package.el in core would force us to fix these things, I think, which is a good thing! Phil