From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: handa@gnu.org (K. Handa) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Issues with quail.el Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 23:27:51 +0900 Message-ID: <87a7sqphug.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20180519120124.ee4bompnunw2gxuv@isis.luna> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1527085573 11789 195.159.176.226 (23 May 2018 14:26:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 14:26:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: yair.f.lists@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Amit Ramon Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 23 16:26:09 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fLUiN-0002sk-Hb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 May 2018 16:26:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33769 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLUkT-0005fT-3r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 May 2018 10:28:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45794) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLUkJ-0005fH-NF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 May 2018 10:28:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLUkD-0004LY-IK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 May 2018 10:28:07 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41928) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fLUk7-0004Ka-PF; Wed, 23 May 2018 10:27:55 -0400 Original-Received: from fl1-119-240-85-224.iba.mesh.ad.jp ([119.240.85.224]:38792 helo=mongkok) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fLUk7-0007ab-AK; Wed, 23 May 2018 10:27:55 -0400 Original-Received: from handa by mongkok with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fLUk3-0006jg-NQ; Wed, 23 May 2018 23:27:51 +0900 In-Reply-To: <20180519120124.ee4bompnunw2gxuv@isis.luna> (message from Amit Ramon on Sat, 19 May 2018 15:01:24 +0300) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:225600 Archived-At: In article <20180519120124.ee4bompnunw2gxuv@isis.luna>, Amit Ramon writes: > There are still some slight issued, for example the quail's definition > of the standard keyboard layout is based on VT100 layout, which is > different in some minor aspects from a standard PC keyboard (e.g. the > location of the tilde key), but this is not related to the problem > this patch fixes. When I first wrote that part (looong ago), we were using Unix (not GNU/Linux) on workstations (not PC). At that time, the choice of VT100 as the starndard layout was, I thought, not that bad. >>> > What I get for the second letter (TET, =D7=98) is: > > >>> > =D7=98 can't be input by the current input method > > >>> I confimed this bug, but it seems that fixing take more time. Please = wait. > > > >Here's the patch to fix it. Could you please try it? > I tested this patch with the configurations mentioned above (after > fixing the cdr/car typo mentioned by Filipp Gunbin in a different mail > in this thread) and, again, it fixes the problem. Thank you for testing it. I'll commit that patch soon. > There are still some issued that are, perhaps, related to a broader > question, I'll try to describe them briefly here, but I think they > should not stop us from applying your fixes. > 1. Key sequences > Lets assume I'm using a Dvorak keyboard layout and a Hebrew input > method. This input method include some key sequences for typing some > special Hebrew signs. For example, for inputting HEBREW PUNCTUATION > MAQAF (=D6=BE), one has to type q-p. When the keyboard layout is standard, > there is no problem. When it is Dvorak, C-h I still says you have to > type q-p, and it works if you press the keys that are q-p in the > standard layout, but since I use Dvoark it is (for me) '-l. Here comes > the question of what the input method really wants -- to keep the > actual location of the keys you need to type a sequence constant, or > that the constant should be the keys themselves (i.e., their meaning). At first, there's something wrong in the docstring of Hebrew. It says: ------------------------------------------------------------ 'q' is used to switch levels instead of Alt-Gr. Maqaaf (=D6=BE) is mapped to '/=D7=A4'. ------------------------------------------------------------ Why does it say "mapped to '/=D7=A4'"? Shouldn't it be "mapped to 'qp'"?=20 [I included yair.f.lists@gmail.com in CC: because it seems that this part is added by him]. Anyway, to make that part shown correctly in *Help* buffer for Dvorak users, we need a new mechanism to convert "qp" to "-l". One idea is to introduce a new notation, something like "\[q]" and modify quail-help to convert it to the key on the current layout. Here, I have a question. I think 'q' of 'qp' is selected because a user won't have to insert "q" while typing Hebrew. But, is it ok to use "/" for that kind of prefix key? The following section in *Help* buffer can be fixed rather easily... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D KEY SEQUENCE ------------ You can also input more characters by the following key sequences: key char [type a key sequence to insert the corresponding character] --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- q" =D7=B4 q0 =D7=81 q4 =D6=B4 q8 =D6=B8 q\ =D6=BB qh =D7= =B2 qw =D7=B3 [...] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D because the table is generated by a program. Perhaps, we should fix quail-insert-decode-map. > 2. Shifted keys > This is somewhat similar to the above. If (Hebrew + Dvorak layout) I > ask quail-show-key to tell what to type for inputting Z, it tells me > "To input 'Z', just type it". > But (again, Hebrew input method is active) this is not really true > since my keyboard layout is Dvorak -- to enter Z in Hebrew input > method I need to press Shift-;, since the key that has ; in Dvorak is > the z key in the standard layout. This part should also be fixed. > These are, maybe, questions of semantics and context -- when one say > that I have to type q-p (to get HEBREW MAQAF), is it in the context of > my real keyboard (then it is not true for Dvoark), or is it in the > context of a standard keyboard (and then it is confusing people who're > using, say, a Dvorak keyboard). As I wrote above, 'qp' should be converted to '-l' in *Help* buffer. > P.s. Handa san, I have some technical questions and, perhaps, some > suggestions for simplifying some parts of quail.el (assuming I'm > not completely misunderstanding it) -- would you be interested to > hear? If so, shall I post my questions in this thread or, perhaps, > send them directly to you? Could you post to emacs-devel with a new proper subject? --- K. Handa handa@gnu.org