From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sean Whitton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggested experimental test Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:42:35 -0700 Message-ID: <87a6qvni78.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> References: <831ba60af0cbfdd95686@heytings.org> <87mtuxj8ue.fsf@gnus.org> <9088e12cb3de3d30abf1@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30357"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings , Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 22 19:43:59 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lOPWw-0007ip-Jb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 19:43:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56690 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOPWv-00035z-GE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 14:43:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36920) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOPVh-0001tP-Sn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 14:42:41 -0400 Original-Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:57033) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOPVg-0005xh-5s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 14:42:41 -0400 Original-Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 499A05C0156; Mon, 22 Mar 2021 14:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 22 Mar 2021 14:42:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=spwhitton.name; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm2; bh=mVtMufToDgIFZyQ97KEoQFJTK8 lXk/iSgCDOLKMndJY=; b=D2p+b3/6BXZ9DX3n0zErd8FrG++507X9G+GwpRdHOi Kd7kPqTmsU0z4y+6dAiJhBYKvj0HgWSlAfzzcwciQKtAarPfv9zKC4j5GbYMm3yI /CC3kpCyM8T3Zr/QRZ3iI5en3U3n7GbdoLzLnhv80mhyBHbDErnx+dZ7mYxvRbPX uUH24VburWNkJKh8Xqdrlm+CEFAB/IRjJetQodgrGl8ARR1BF2d4cRp4EsPMggDA uAciCuomNFBCBRoG454JCJXkNnNmg3gP38UMCJzq97Jj3zYA7c489KwCqHmg5iS8 6kenei7RQmrBqKjgUJTG8dlLyzz+3u3gzbxgr+TE5FgQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=mVtMuf ToDgIFZyQ97KEoQFJTK8lXk/iSgCDOLKMndJY=; b=g+PTZMVAgzZ8e1jqZZPrfY h4qmS1rW/lMxpPN0fQAjHK2Pp/FPPCQqHgVWTXALg2hE16eICK7XzfJIIeRxULQS xEFCDHDg9l7036QNjl6sjYZiWC3/JW0l6WPRw+X4/Lt+5QLb83UieqHqZsog7qHi Ocz57GLGTZEKs4tvAPU1TTliwXKRNAMEBEoXthGlifS/XW7fporSVTA8D9Ctbbh/ 26WujSfd+mGlqWzuwlh2QLrIj1RrOgvOYhRkfJgSU7Ra3D5/u0H/rYPZ2nDLWkiE RMXuw2qTaBXZGJ77Uhg2H/tpKKTBqf9cuYkL62a+ZKyn/XsxbLEuKkb0YlPNxsxA == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudeggedgudduhecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefhvffujghffffkgggtsehttdertddttddtnecuhfhrohhmpefuvggrnhcu hghhihhtthhonhcuoehsphifhhhithhtohhnsehsphifhhhithhtohhnrdhnrghmvgeqne cuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgedtvdehgeffhfffvdeffefhgfejffelhfetveffffektefg tdejtdeivddtveehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilh hfrhhomhepshhpfihhihhtthhonhesshhpfihhihhtthhonhdrnhgrmhgv X-ME-Proxy: In-Reply-To: <9088e12cb3de3d30abf1@heytings.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.25; envelope-from=spwhitton@spwhitton.name; helo=out1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:266786 Archived-At: Hello Gregory, On Sun 21 Mar 2021 at 10:48AM GMT, Gregory Heytings wrote: >>> May I suggest the attached, slightly more controversial, experimental >>> test? >> >> Removing `C-o' has already been suggested, and there's already been a >> lot of negative feedback on that, if I remember correctly. So I don't >> think there's much point in doing this experiment. >> > > Well... the suggested experiment does not remove C-o, it changes C-o in a > way that is, I believe, painless. We cannot know whether it is indeed > painless without experimenting at a larger scale. The few who objected > against changing C-o may well find out, after trying it out, that this > small change is not as bad as they thought. > > As far as I remember, there has not been a lot of negative feedback on > changing C-o, the negative feedback was (to my surprise) mostly about the > possibility of changing the behavior of C-z. To be honest, changing C-o feels like changing C-y -- in fact, I probably type C-o more often than I type C-y. -- Sean Whitton