From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel
Subject: Re: On Contributing To Emacs
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 23:48:57 +0800
Message-ID: <87a6gjtnrq.fsf@localhost>
References: <Ms-vAhM--3-2@tutanota.de>
 <CADwFkm=5RNzT1Veu28JizJfwdcP8OS9nDyfBoPo97yu2zhVSiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <87tuesndye.fsf@localhost>
 <CADwFkm=PYopjmGAbN-jG4i3D0TvFrqAk_vZSr_2J5BgL3R1=Sg@mail.gmail.com>
 <834k6rlfk6.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsqbtsui.fsf@localhost>
 <83mtkjjvxb.fsf@gnu.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214";
	logging-data="12768"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io"
Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 29 16:49:01 2021
Return-path: <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>
Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org
Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17])
	by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
	(Exim 4.92)
	(envelope-from <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>)
	id 1n2bCG-000349-E2
	for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 16:49:00 +0100
Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49304 helo=lists1p.gnu.org)
	by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
	(envelope-from <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>)
	id 1n2bCE-0007sj-I9
	for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 10:48:58 -0500
Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54226)
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <yantar92@gmail.com>)
 id 1n2bAz-0006q5-K1
 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 10:47:41 -0500
Original-Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::12d] (port=38501
 helo=mail-lf1-x12d.google.com)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <yantar92@gmail.com>)
 id 1n2bAx-0005wR-Qj; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 10:47:41 -0500
Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id x21so48893246lfa.5;
 Wed, 29 Dec 2021 07:47:38 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112;
 h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id
 :mime-version; bh=0EcqMpw/0/+0fEL2myqqndeOn9CCVYy/bIzf3Gm+6J8=;
 b=peQJBHMNSIdmUrlnhC3kfCOh5a3DXTeRE5UbFq7UV0AOpcD1hIbqWnykpinBSJgaKC
 SIWMuo8euzOdM6UhPs0qBj3ROOqfxDGnIYo5PsKd9ai9OSN1EK1gCqHEjCSrQBn0JcaH
 q94e01bp+10raJVHOyQSBSaPCYRT5gx4OS7BGsyhtMweCgXnvgvhEHBVhAvfygZfx+cQ
 TFWdH3mohK7R+B7I5ZhguSvs9a+bU3ugRYj/WgJa8AyQhe9zUAT/VEUHMUwEp7G3Oal7
 GTwquULYMUo8efIuaDne2UcgCj/gHQhg2q5aYaFOEXXTWNIPRbwOATZV7yjaMM6sIvfb
 nylQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20210112;
 h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date
 :message-id:mime-version;
 bh=0EcqMpw/0/+0fEL2myqqndeOn9CCVYy/bIzf3Gm+6J8=;
 b=11U5tZVWsg+JEghXeiQjrl6CpNJOqupT4PlbqgpkQ4KTSsDlHWoDbBB4VsmrXa44ho
 fAxbkPxmlWiTwhdRmQCwkjx4Cfj6tCBeMYRP2n8Cab7Foh6ND0WomQ6kupJOkMmYHF34
 A6IN3GcUAw7riCfZVowJMhmAC9or41fUL0RXFekIsf48Ui2je9x3C1xI4MUWJZq14Xz5
 zPL2anqGWdb5extCrTg9ApiAm4sNPiQFSuqXZsVYRznqxli5+RCshTY2UfY0tZadGOFl
 FzvXzfLnVOgK/BnBxq2TgnMtM7sxrojqiv6nBtkeiClqzUyTLEEO+Ea/UpQtYKd8BQlN
 aGcg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531PQabZctdCOlQHO48Wwn5VZihT6ljYzRKhURGZkCSCbq+3MDap
 TO0K8YTaw3IHij5SDoucbkFdzLfV/LwvXyfu
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzB3QlUHWGL6n66sjMiQCSJhS6z4y2W0BYmPrF1ML5yv9EvqC3akI+Eb5h7q5bwcWaGJyeSoQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:261f:: with SMTP id
 bt31mr7820084lfb.400.1640792856988; 
 Wed, 29 Dec 2021 07:47:36 -0800 (PST)
Original-Received: from localhost ([91.210.107.150])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e7sm2238241lfs.111.2021.12.29.07.47.36
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 29 Dec 2021 07:47:36 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <83mtkjjvxb.fsf@gnu.org>
X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::12d
 (failed)
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12d;
 envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12d.google.com
X-Spam_score_int: 8
X-Spam_score: 0.8
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam_report: (0.8 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
 DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25,
 FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793,
 SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/emacs-devel>,
 <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel>
List-Post: <mailto:emacs-devel@gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>,
 <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org
Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel"
 <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>
Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283569
Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/283569>

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> 3. I tried to simulate a newcomer aiming to contribute a new built-in
>>    package to Emacs, but willing to update the contribution frequently.
>
> If this is the purpose, we could say something like
>
>   If you would like to contribute a stand-alone package, consider
>   submitting it to ELPA, not to Emacs.
>
> Would that be enough?

I don't think so. It's clear how to contribute a stand-alone package.
The confusion comes when someone wants to contribute a built-in package
yet widely available ahead of Emacs next release or in older Emacs.

A real example: RMS recently asked Org ML about splitting Org mode into
modules and integrating them into Emacs code proper. And we do have some
modules that could be integrated into Emacs: recent org-persist was
written with RMS request in mind; upcoming redesign of folding system
will have a universal module for text folding; some parts of Org parser
could be reused in the code (we have incremental parser equivalent to
tree-sitter implemented fully in Elisp).

However, without knowing that built-in Emacs packages can be distributed
via ELPA, the above is difficult to achieve. Org promises to support
older Emacs versions and we cannot rely on all the users using master
version of Emacs (we cannot even rely on latest Emacs release).

>> 6. ELPA section is very confusing with this mindset (and in general as
>>    well).
>
> I find nothing confusing there.  All it says is that the Emacs
> repository doesn't include ELPA, which is a separate repository with
> its own README file.
>
> IOW, all it wants is to prevent people from mistakenly thinking
> CONTRIBUTE and emacs.git in general cover ELPA.

The confusion is for the users who do not know what is GNU ELPA.

Best,
Ihor