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Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:04:20 +0000 Original-Received: by kubenode504.mail-prod1.omega.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 24cd87ea94af56ae39cc737fb4ce4fcb; Fri, 07 Jan 2022 07:04:15 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 7 Jan 2022 05:58:01 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19551 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.188.204; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic311-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284373 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > Doesn't matter to your statement, which was only that if something is > longstanding then it should be kept - a blanket argument for keeping > the status quo, what's "established". And it (dynamic binding) has been kept. > The lack of lexical binding was longstanding. The lack of lexical binding was a shortcoming. A shortcoming is not behaviour, nor is it a feature. In contrast, defaulting to the init file if no custom-file is set is behaviour, since it describes how the program behaves under certain conditions. In the specific case of lexical binding, the long-standing behaviour that was preserved was to default to dynamic binding. > The absence of a `custom-file' by default is "relied on"? How so? Emacs would start to behave differently for people who did not explictly set custom-file if it gained a default value. > But there's no longer any lack of it. A change was introduced, > bucking your rule of not changing whatever's long been the case. [...] > What was established was that there was _only_ dynamic binding. > That's no longer the case. Again, see what I said about the distinction between behaviour and shortcomings. > How so? Are you talking about a minority of users having to > explicitly say that they don't want a separate file - e.g. simply > setting `custom-file' to nil? You may call them a "minority", but all people are important. There is no need to cause useless churn for people, just because some other people have differing preferences. > As opposed to the majority having to say that they do want a separate > file? The majority (if it indeed is a majority) have already done so. > I'm assuming you agree it's generally better, for more people than > not, to use a separate `custom-file'. Yes, I agree. If this discussion was started at the introduction of `custom-file', then I would certainly have argued for it to have a default value. > There are more future than past users, and for a new user the "other > thing" of longstanding habit doesn't apply. How many future users there will be is for the future to say, not for the present, where changing the default value will only serve to churn the already muddy waters.