From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding a "quick-help" menu Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:48:56 +0800 Message-ID: <87a66yvc5j.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87v8pn4968.fsf@posteo.net> <87r10avk92.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39205"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: Philip Kaludercic , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 17 06:50:14 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oZPmP-0009vw-NA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 06:50:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53794 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oZPmO-00010H-8r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 00:50:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46060) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oZPlR-0000K8-J3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 00:49:13 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic317-33.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.184.44]:40729) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oZPlP-0008Ge-Io for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 00:49:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1663390148; bh=2sroam5NhM3HUpmKVoJJaUs5gtX4+7ChwY2k2W/t+KY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=Hp0CmN33fqkw2KVYyfL/ln4jbpG0Rh/vuHMrrG+p9VbqMAiMrnKop3120czXnAuAF8yNx9tLgGxUSmYBvwTeh9WOAnAo7yeqx23OQPm6+YvFJQOxmsy37UaOiFDJmOjfyZY8BOFNBO9xNWt1DPIpBx07mM6MyQ8tdY5bEWQ4b6/u/3utKfrrsjD8KD078QiAra9ixTt02vuHfQURWeBI/DhPWCJaiW3WEf4oHR+IrYbViJ8S6WW9nlfKc2VPLPYQU71Zz1ZQiVwFtfVnbTbgJ9biO/M4bIy4gU3hXCXSMP7Cix1XiD0rw/l+incYbLNtrI0sy+bPQd4TUfy+GH2hEw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1663390148; bh=a/X42VwR2oAU2b1Vzcr9MOhs3bC3xO2S1BTmv6pn1Hg=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=BHFdDcDj5FZD0oREgX+r6MKIpLqEbBdg4/q4qGS965kiR50QVS/W8Ov2XJVsE0Gv9mIs6+ikbbgYc2iLvgTjmtPHZtFsC03YATEbsrdmqJG4KCiMOGAIzeYTBpfLut9ycgV03DrjAsWFtD9gWH1ksvz7gtveKGzN1H+dAQ08Gm15Y2yd951tpUegKuj2iPd0ClViC7nfrh/jbIZE1IJW4mp8Ma9Dj/McGXh5+0MS1/IgKCU0VKFKCPzrqaw+QaPm9x1V4ci0/NZb7XFbTKkVB/RqxsJijqsx4Y6PXwnj4t1fpSd1fKxCj17Osm6lkyGuMEd+zi/+f2KhLfLPUVRdjw== X-YMail-OSG: IsnPQeYVM1mGpPxRd7YYYbGr.nKeUYBzs94QrsDULWrn7urFlD8tSFdnwjAPBkh 8HZ0G4igYNtOfo3Wob1CHphSkoCVAW.mPPJ7nOWYPgzeS01YmaffekU_mkI4JhiHNTPaOm6XLRSN EVuaU51Nt3tbQ6.GshmtaNuoBP15td92YGg6qgspXzn7TZH5IeUB.suH72O3FcEGbwSpqvhErJZY V4I6yghDPHDkPmX0NObrm2RQnotqaE5_zHUMN4gViBinBWylnqdN2_u4Q8U79UVJbinGCKsnKGMr eZ9CISg91RP0eHjDZQNlSGsbYClNAa14DqtI5l0Ajcz_cvbzraaS9UzQq21KKvpEh20LuBuqSSaa Z.Ess6bndQsaKoL06f1ARGSiG1C44XQHQpjJX3WBROFMzBjY_zOwxwjvjWH65cdIX72SEUKJ_3eN CJT3Cbopzz2yW_gKNTk9wprmbJwlXO.vAAH9Ah4OVPejqRJI6jxSe2MNMz6D01UykkFG0qx2.wie PBgGPJoGjDSOrLFWWSTyYtjQoQqLpeqyZVRnLQx6CuChxq5N6KHAnE6tt8QcX5Q_r8uyP.SSASr3 6D_YURr6UtboRmg9rP4o.zqDm3bZLNPctGGOuFjJnPjfpkWOHZTm16.y541tfMU8uFucoKc1.VGh JxgSsZANi3scO4B_NHqE46Du9orVpWItu40cH6Gi1tuMmrAkel6IkCHczHgPJiBYC86wbsIOZAqa x9kSWNIMXsZk7p2VyCdSMZIPO_MIboIRAZbBrxqnFVmkPu9G.V2URxPhm66gNwXaOs1wKykkAqhf Mud6LeUhB9vutqTsZx6Ij66bluTm4XvcxSlwQ8qW1i X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic317.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 04:49:08 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-6bb8946c47-s4xp5 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 118fab90cb0c7bb4825243185f22a4bd; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 04:49:01 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Fri, 16 Sep 2022 22:51:41 -0400") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20663 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.184.44; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic317-33.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:295513 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > FWIW, I don't see how the menu bar could be a replacement. Why not? Most computer users immediately look in the menu labeled "Help" for help. > Note also that the menu bar is not very popular among users: 74.3 % of > the 7300 users that replied to the Emacs Survey in 2020 disabled it.[1] > It'd be interesting to know how many of those that didn't disable it use > it more than occasionally, but I don't think that data was collected. If they turn off the features that are supposed to help them, what do you think a "quick help" menu will do? And why won't it be turned off as well? Besides, if they turn off the menu bar and splash screen at startup, how will we impart the existence of the "quick help" menu to them?