From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2023 20:14:31 +0000 Message-ID: <87a5udk1co.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmxj27fn.fsf@dfreeman.email> <831qfrptiq.fsf@gnu.org> <57429221-d9be-5791-e975-b3539905e2f6@gutov.dev> <83a5udlj47.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8962"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Dmitry Gutov , danny@dfreeman.email, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 26 22:15:40 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qZzh3-0001zQ-Gu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 22:15:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZzg7-0004dg-JK; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:14:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZzg6-0004dY-FX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:14:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZzg3-0007GG-Oi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:14:38 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 627D0240028 for ; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 22:14:32 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693080872; bh=27n+xXKJuXinkdJTe76G8KZ3P/6bCJWHsudOhh6bAQc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=o9LM7iC8fAZnKtrVXEaE42N5nKspZ+oG5IzvT+ZQ4dLAC7B6Njwdqzmakx+hRaDnL fyMI8SiXtsmzrqYOh1brdr0VZslPMonOywf9wwxBI+s5t+XMUEjegd3gky/r2JRHUG 96rMS2fbLIPQMEt30qUGiBM0hSWXHjYEJ3HS7XufWoRBPd+Gh5sY7mYDdKgvtmDd+4 uqm5m4JPiFuLSp5dsFM5Dzraq4VyfxwNn0IMsSWxYkCmaR2iSdKFvvAJ9iQ6vQRKD0 UK5mf5iCDmFa7zuX2f1Vu3u//b9GchzXropQmNZmVca3KLXB89vt7n+8iTL1FYRt7d aEkqZ2LL2W7Gg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RY7MW2l8Sz6twD; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 22:14:31 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <83a5udlj47.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 26 Aug 2023 22:05:28 +0300") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309281 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2023 21:52:31 +0300 >> Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, >> manuel.uberti@inventati.org >> From: Dmitry Gutov >>=20 >> On 25/08/2023 08:42, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > IME, the development model of Emacs is an important reason why Emacs >> > is still alive and kicking almost 40 years since it was first >> > developed. And important major modes in Emacs are alive and kicking >> > with it. So inclusion in Emacs and the pains of adjusting to a >> > different development model are justified if one wants the major mode >> > to remain alive for many years to come. Something to think about, I >> > guess. >>=20 >> Or the longevity stems from other reasons (e.g. good fundamental ideas,= =20 >> unique proposition, being part of the original GNU system, ...), and the= =20 >> development process is the reason the current user base is a fraction of= =20 >> even Vim's (not to mention popular commercial offerings). >>=20 >> Just an alternative POV to consider. In truth, could be a little of both. > > Mine wasn't a POV, it was an observation based on many years of > watching the development and being part of it. Correct me if I am wrong: This seems to be related to the fact that the GitHub-model (thought it probably precedes it) of development has motivated more and more individuals to maintain packages, instead of organisations like GNU, Apache, etc. Or at least I understand that if there is a collective effort behind maintaining the components of a system, contributors can come and go without a package being abandoned -- this is especially true for Emacs due to the extensive introspectability. But it appears this reaches a limit, if a component is too complex (CEDET was mentioned as one example, and if Jo=C3=A3o were to suddenly loose interest in contributing to Emacs, something similar might happen to Eglot as well). I only mention this, because I don't agree with the premise that this boils down to "mailing-list" or "web-interface". While it is true that a lot of people are uncertain and afraid of sending a message to a mailing list, this fear is unreasonable and worth dispelling. I think there is a reasonable point to be made that the CA prevents certain valuable contributions from entering Emacs/GNU ELPA. IANAL, so I don't know if a sign-off procedure would be a sufficient alternative? But if I am a bit cynical, I cannot deny that having a CA-system can also help filtering out a lot of noise and low-quality code (I'd claim that the average quality of a ELPA package is higher than that of packages on MELPA...).