From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ahmed Khanzada via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2023 12:21:04 -0400 Message-ID: <87a5u44kcv.fsf@enzu.ru> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <97224c4f-fad4-ae01-46c1-5755d97d9a92@gutov.dev> <87fs3ztq38.fsf@localhost> <87cyz3qwba.fsf@posteo.net> <8734zztmiz.fsf@localhost> <87sf7zqs3l.fsf@yahoo.com> <87il8vs6e7.fsf@localhost> <87jztbqrc9.fsf@yahoo.com> <877cpbs5a0.fsf@localhost> <87fs3zqqgj.fsf@yahoo.com> <874jkfs4o0.fsf@localhost> <87y1hroz47.fsf@posteo.net> Reply-To: Ahmed Khanzada Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13395"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) Cc: Jens Schmidt , emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 02 18:22:13 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qcTO0-0003Cu-7n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Sep 2023 18:22:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcTNH-0004Qb-7I; Sat, 02 Sep 2023 12:21:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcTND-0004Pq-Bm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Sep 2023 12:21:23 -0400 Original-Received: from enzu.ru ([104.156.225.206] helo=polaris) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcTMw-0007ny-RJ; Sat, 02 Sep 2023 12:21:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=enzu.ru; s=default; t=1693671665; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ftrBpAAOwhZJt4qFjjOnenOCKa3HHGqCrGaNCfKk9pE=; b=Zs2pEy+DB9ahV4njOHcYbVioz7Jxiaf2fz8m7XLomzT46zVniuhOJIRT9mXrqqp3I7Q9tQ B/CMlD4uk7oeL/zlWqN+tQb5OO0MqJ5Oz666tvrLPdb2PAOe6jrUNtDnUwzwm0nJO5aQ+s 0J4CAHZkHbgrRPSKtclvd89UYSkMI+i5iQDV+ttxLhnh0cEDEhLa8XItjq46VSWKJ8fmsB iMViDGrI4xzaeLc+v7DYbLjxxe1LC8X7JYseFjnLUY+72cbCukotM/952fKoYXQ0qD9sxO xyxuXb2vZYW7pjBgHtw1iV2DJDM/IxZasagJwlKeehVcPMHm663ABCHw8IC1jg== Original-Received: from guix (ool-457500e4.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.0.228]) by mail.enzu.ru (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 03eedddf (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Sat, 2 Sep 2023 12:21:04 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 01 Sep 2023 21:51:27 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=104.156.225.206; envelope-from=me@enzu.ru; helo=polaris X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FSL_HELO_NON_FQDN_1=0.001, HELO_NO_DOMAIN=0.178, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309897 Archived-At: I am a 34 year old hacker that grew up with web browsers and GitHub. I contribute to a number of GPL packages on GitHub. Only recently I have managed to switch over to a comfortable mailing list workflow. Some thoughts on the learning curve involved there: - Younger users are used to the mouse-centric UI conventions of web apps. Once I was mentoring a young student, and they decided to use terminal vim because that's what the cool kids do, and they then asked me why their mouse wasn't working. - A new mailing list user might try to use a webmail client, which does not thread appropriately, and which primarily deals with HTML email. Using a client that does not thread properly makes using mailing lists impossible. - A new mailing list user might try to use a corporate email server, which fights against their use of traditional open protocols like IMAP. They end up fighting their corporate mail provider for days. Ultimately, what made mailing lists working for me was the following: - Setting up my own email server on OpenBSD so that I could use my email account in whatever matter I chose. - Setting up OfflineIMAP which would grab email from my OpenBSD server, and convert it to the Maildir format locally. - Tagging Maildir email with notmuch so everything was filtered into well-sized readable folders. - Using Gnus which displays threads wonderfully, and lets you run through email with a few keystrokes. After all that, I can now see the superiority of a mailing list workflow over the clumsy PR workflows of the forges, although I miss the "social network" aspect of GitHub that lets you follow your favorite developers and see what they are up to. I have been playing with the idea that I should make a simple program that will: - Register you with an email service that has a long track record of being friendly - Ask what mailing lists you are interested in signing up for and registering you with them - Asking some remaining questions so that it can setup OfflineIMAP, Notmuch, Emacs, and Gnus appropriately for you I think rather than creating a web frontend that none of us will use, maybe we should make our advanced Emacs+Gnus workflows more accessible. But that might also be exactly the wrong move. :)