From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Is ChatGTP SaaSS? (was: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 12:51:42 +0000 Message-ID: <87a5tzsbvl.fsf@localhost> References: <87v8d0iqa5.fsf@posteo.net> <87cyz3vaws.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38104"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: jporterbugs@gmail.com, ahyatt@gmail.com To: rms@gnu.org, emacs-tangents@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 06 17:05:02 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qdu5V-0009fv-QX for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 17:05:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdu5G-0001sN-V8; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 11:04:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdrzl-0007xX-Jx for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 08:50:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdrzi-0008Vj-I6 for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 08:50:57 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E9CA240029 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2023 14:50:52 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1694004652; bh=C5vdEgsMZpuLfUY5FCGgPsqOoYSypQTA0RJtAhDu7tQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=bmg4HuVGuntmiCrv0wLOjNGTToplQaR9YmVS9s1ihm3glJFSj+4jUgRqrs1pLN8ZM +Gt6zHIq2Qbi39mUhWN7sksMWsAOeRMfnTWjZqmuDDSOZSnqesNBnbXqQUi5sljlMV pWEJeo5B/c5nUBvEqzl0EDvQ/1+9PN1Tcm0F4ocQ0+EZwf24bIe+C9Vyqf77JDcXuO ri8bZcfMUf28W13BvhR2nSxTggSUxNCfVd6/NGu2mX/GmnBxq/uGzmdeZJFEXZ9dQI VKXZFUyPI1/QQyUzMNNGEYF35QgSm5kij6XwbNOLl08lhMx5OUQGXFRaMwd0qsEMQ2 Q/iLE/JVet7iA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Rgj0W6d6tz6twm; Wed, 6 Sep 2023 14:50:51 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 11:04:43 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:1051 Archived-At: [ Moving this to emacs-tangents ] Richard Stallman writes: > > > As for LLMs that run on servers, they are a different issue entirely. > > > They are all SaaSS (Service as a Software Substitute), and SaaSS is > > > always unjust. > > > > > > See https://gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html > > > for explanation. > > > I do not fully agree here. A number of more powerful LLMs have very > > limiting hardware requirements. For example, some LLMs require 64+Gbs of > > RAM to run: > > That is true, and it is unfortunate. There may be no practical way > to run a certain model except for SaaSS. > > That does not alter the injustice of SaaSS. So we should not silence > our criticism of SaaSS in those cases, This is a rather theoretical consideration, but, talking about ChatGTP (owned by OpenAI) specifically, should it even be considered SaaSS? https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html says: Using a joint project's servers isn't SaaSS because the computing you do in this way isn't your own. For instance, if you edit pages on Wikipedia, you are not doing your own computing; rather, you are collaborating in Wikipedia's computing. Wikipedia controls its own servers, but organizations as well as individuals encounter the problem of SaaSS if they do their computing in someone else's server. Then, ChatGTP is using the user input to train their model: https://techunwrapped.com/you-can-now-make-chatgpt-not-train-with-your-queries/ ... what is constant is that the company can use our conversations with ChatGPT to train the model. This is not a surprise or a secret, the company has always reported it. There is no doubt that ChatGTP itself is not libre - its model is not available to public. However, users of the ChatGPT model are technically providing input that is collaboratively editing that model weights (training the model further). So, using ChatGTP is a little bit akin editing Wikipedia pages - collaborating to improve ChatGTP. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at