From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs design and architecture Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 21:00:18 +0800 Message-ID: <87a5tmz319.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <83r0n4rj78.fsf@gnu.org> <83cyynpmvd.fsf@gnu.org> <838r99mh40.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6nwlmt4.fsf@gnu.org> <456d12ac-ecf4-3de4-56bb-a2440580777f@gutov.dev> <83a5tokmsv.fsf@gnu.org> <83sf7fki5g.fsf@gnu.org> <43d642a8-d1b4-05ed-41e0-6e52d22df2d4@gutov.dev> <83edizjn0v.fsf@gnu.org> <0518f65b-1dd1-6923-8497-da4d3aeac631@gutov.dev> <1cff05f8-df80-b776-5175-dd27a6e59799@gutov.dev> <87wmwqiax9.fsf@whxvd.name> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9855"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Dmitry Gutov , Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= , Eli Zaretskii , yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, owinebar@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Sebastian Miele Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 16 15:07:33 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qhV1J-0002NP-23 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 15:07:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qhUuo-0005fr-Eg; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 09:00:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qhUue-0005eH-Oi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 09:00:48 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic305-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.185.147]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qhUuc-0006WC-Q9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 09:00:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1694869236; bh=4eH2BlP2voZ1x9SACOK3pHyTX21rWRVEJ02zDJnOWZc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=O1cn2hc9OKNyOJsuhr+GWcXPxOPJryc46CfUrhzHuZffY3lY5hEEyIfF7pKyyBEg3NF2hHm1/lb/9y7jerGP770PfZ3M/9794t/+BiMggZXzk8s0LwPd9cZ9yMMlikTz0CYkPMassOTdys97chWKH7tF4JFMGA1PEjiqp4qYlsIORqdCxSaktW7NLJQtHxex2sYFUKW/j49MVBr2eeCI4JUdxlXvwrtjRoQdE9+I9OoMrai/+/wLtttFY83ubQwnSwGSsgD2W9qmr0P5He02e6+m96OHI91C1wyZunvGa7ffRcAndnmjKY11C7ZT5+7lvGfNBm6BDGUl5JvEmyRrZQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1694869236; bh=f/H9MOF1zaTL9oyou8hiGqGKk5eSHjkNMiN8SB6rDcp=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=MWwfFvKxlY1/461kJsyqovY3UkZgDMN9zYh3OLaeGQGCoeamX5nyVKk1fODJAsSE5rneLL7ZdSO/raR6fuzsQZL+tKIr67H1pgPlL9K7C2ghBQhfsZywWx5358Sn31W87H10LKhAvvz03Vg6ySeqx4/V6U1O55Ipz5tntuCH6SfnH6qi2K4nmDJ531jAe1z9hIqVQXim/q+LwQvuVd8dhqI6GGERuTQZ7JSksqxG2us+3N41xHwUvGtn+w9p7Qbm8uykuf4bZBjM1dA8MFMGjl9eL8KCBdolOqzuXlhveYUGKbAun+64oA8mlspD3ynkkp5N7U6O4+OYy9SDkyS8Lg== X-YMail-OSG: xxSFWaoVM1nUTsDeX0fsXDoCnbVCnmdwcldocy.MkcD374YQWkjY7cricTSagcT B9ymyszxo0gEvJv7lK2Ui0X6jeQ6jA8teSV3HXpNOwmU6CRSxevYe8lfyVaCO.0s1gnUO_5R_mSp 9bybsFSPJoJCG9HtZIKGp7oUyR2eTVzjjba4i8vNiXQUe2X75FelCBMDS8EDrxF4cs5WDpIDMxw. 28DSfLkt1OQMJfyVBpow0kxuqi7z42DPSlgO3ub2GhDvumjdxEkbFuxKv49YiSHmCOO88PlcFrvp hA092wjtkIcEinVPsV3yPQ1xPfLGiNhcXZu7KYPJuvTRsPG4eeuMtyvqSbEJaWUQYqbnQnISTFq4 TPP1_7Ni1XNvHJVtUjHeZxJGSo_txPCbJ5KunXf0BlXaCW8dFb6SwxkgPdtshk0LQ8FUGS2QRqeM i5JLjmRay8oEb53qxTylfUcYSDnOiSYebaQu8GrT.d9vYqiYbLaKT1dMeUtLu6x3.fQm.Pg2.aO9 Eqe1hSthFu5uMNRQeqR94HFtJtYlYad3j6Fp.wEPnqK6GXkorhzXBCOoPi650.ogfBkpT7YeP7u2 q84.UrjuNP71fzUsvFKyDIMgMDH.6UbD6kXGo_fEpkgtU.EEJ9miE.l5NsBvYrXwymWIDrLq_BOi XTRkL6uD8liN.zpIDAhB9TPCH_ZiEgvnMAOf_u1HfAIzZziWohUa5dYS5IaPrUVZs.rsoVRjyuGf c7KBSoqJje4oTVFNuWcU_gT9GWNCkAZzy8sB3v2ZLzD3vQqyII7bijFzu5bMyZTdtxL2r.RiA9vT LIRwZ5VzXhKx6x_CIRqSMOdMp1kYfZEpfg9zsMrCbw X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: e28e046b-c6f4-49d7-8361-540241454f20 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 13:00:36 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-55c667b499-gg78d (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 0e5caeae9cc4324cc18e152195917558; Sat, 16 Sep 2023 13:00:29 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87wmwqiax9.fsf@whxvd.name> (Sebastian Miele's message of "Sat, 16 Sep 2023 13:59:00 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21797 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.185.147; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic305-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310625 Archived-At: Sebastian Miele writes: > In the foreseeable future, probably not. I do not know the details. > But there is WebAssembly. In order to access the DOM and possibly other > browser API, at least a few months ago, it was still necessary to > somehow go through JS. But it is very unlikely that that will not > change in a not too distant future. There are many developements going > on in that area that (will) make implementing further languages on top > of WebAssembly easier and the languages and APIs interoperable with less > and less overhead, and more and more common management (including GC). > I have only a very superficial view. But in the last months I gained > the impression, that WebAssembly and standards and stuff around it > probably will become a very versatile and interoperable VM > infrastracture, including "WebAssamble-native" APIs to almost anything. > > What may be interesting in that direction, too, are experimental browser > engines like Servo. In the last months I read somewhere (and by people > contributing to it) that Servo more or less explicitly has the aim to > allow to take/use only parts of it, and to have as clear and > approachable source code as possible. A next generation Emacs probably > would not need or even want all that a web browser has to support. It > could concentrate on a subset of web-stuff that already is known to work > very well and efficiently. > > Disclaimer: I really do not know the details. This is only a > superficial view gained during the last months. ISTM that it would be more productive to examine LibreOffice. We do wish to turn Emacs into a word processor, after all. And LibreOffice provides layout capabilities that are in no way inferior to those supplies by the editors found within web browsers, all while being designed to edit rather than display documents. And as a second data point, none of the web browsers cited in this thread still function on the computers I use five days a week, at my workplace. Nor do they support Windows XP, which I believe Eli uses.