From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jeremy Bryant via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#67053: 29.1; Doc string of variable `dired-use-ls-dired' Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 21:38:19 +0000 Message-ID: <87a5rldzec.fsf@jeremybryant.net> References: Reply-To: Jeremy Bryant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12586"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 67053@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 10 23:20:53 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r1Zrs-0009rW-Un for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 23:20:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1ZrZ-0001On-JO; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 17:20:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1ZrU-0001OB-7v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 17:20:24 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1ZrS-00043b-V3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 17:20:24 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1Zs6-0001Su-SF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 17:21:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Jeremy Bryant Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2023 22:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 67053 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, 67053@debbugs.gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by 67053-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B67053.16996548515587 (code B ref 67053); Fri, 10 Nov 2023 22:21:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 67053) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2023 22:20:51 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50981 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1Zru-0001S2-K8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 17:20:50 -0500 Original-Received: from out-173.mta1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:203:375::ad]:32807) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r1Zro-0001Rd-7s for 67053@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 17:20:49 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jeremybryant.net; s=key1; t=1699654800; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=t0ID+kwxWWDVrINwIBjYiJ3PTq9XtCyF5UDOKWFi5r4=; b=AOR3gHbPh9YGj/FeRgmvXqkQfLM3SVHr8GM6pcZiEf5Tj8qFB51Bik/Xyn6+nEYNT0VDxg buPtiSh23nqHoIOd8UzTl8i3ywwiwa7BuACZf1cYI5fXwzZmXl5O0XyQd39H5BmYXOJxHg obnbK8SaWF+nYjvHl77R3mXDQMYDY/SsKozBGo8C1x5YgZLYwhccq4Xbv4I5pZOrxVbHVl mBxdmLXyc3kWt6LxzsWxAJuvX/iAx5BQdWaZBR2RtSfzituGkfOD/sHO0Xag0h3xrX+/hl loVcO+fswMpi4oxOW4H5SGXWgHY89EpvhpxYc+X4stMhsYcmN7ExaUDmvW9qWg== X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. In-reply-to: X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:275496 Here are some thoughts to help explore a modification of the docstring. I observe the rest of the docstring mentions MS Windows explicitly, but maybe incomplete for your suggestion. " ...support this option. Alternatively, you might want to use Emacs's own emulation of \"ls\", by using: (setq ls-lisp-use-insert-directory-program nil) (require \\='ls-lisp) This is used by default on MS Windows, which does not have an \"ls\" program. Note that `ls-lisp' does not support as many options as GNU ls, though. For more details, see Info node `(emacs)ls in Lisp'." " (On my machine (GNU/Linux), this variable starts at the defcustom default of 'unspecified until the first call of M-x dired, whereupon it becomes t ) Drew Adams writes: > emacs -Q. > > With MS Windows, which uses ls-lisp, the value of this variable is > `unspecified'. I think it always has this value. Maybe this is > necessary/correct (?). > > But the doc string says this: > > The special value of 'unspecified' means to check whether "ls" > supports the "--dired" option, and save the result in this > variable. This is performed the first time 'dired-insert-directory' > is invoked. > > That's not as clear as it should be. It gives the impression that the > result of saving the result of that check of the value will be nil or > some non-nil value other than `unspecified'. > Do you think there should be a specific value such as maybe 'dired-flag-unsupported > It would be better to at least say that the result of the check can be > that it hasn't been determined whether "ls" supports the "--dired" > option, and thus that the variable value will remain `unspecified' > after the check. Would you suggest that the right thing would be for the value to move from 'unspecified to something like 'check-inconclusive? This is a change in the defun not just the docstring > > Or if it's the case that the check does, for MS Windows (or more > generally for ls-lisp use), determine that "ls" doesn't support > "--dired", then the value should be changed from `unspecified' to some > other non-nil value, such as `t'. > In the current docstring, t is describes as confirming that ls DOES support --dired > Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something? If so, please make the doc > string clearer to avoid such misunderstanding. Thx. I can propose a patch but I have an incomplete understanding of the problem above. > > In GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 2, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2023-08-02 built on > AVALON > Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19045 > System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2009.19045.3570) > > Configured using: > 'configure --with-modules --without-dbus --with-native-compilation=aot > --without-compress-install --with-tree-sitter CFLAGS=-O2' > > Configured features: > ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP > NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF > TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XPM ZLIB > > (NATIVE_COMP present but libgccjit not available)