From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming merge of adaptive-wrap Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2024 11:58:29 +0800 Message-ID: <87a5orl95m.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <878r4eqjh8.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <878r4eqjh8.fsf@yahoo.com> <875xzgookd.fsf@yahoo.com> <1e6f618f-5572-40e4-addb-016b467def37@gutov.dev> <87il3gn89u.fsf@yahoo.com> <87bk98n3l3.fsf@yahoo.com> <37bf6ee2-3bc0-49e8-aa55-70c77b6c5bf2@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3121"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stephen Berman To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 27 04:59:26 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rTZqn-0000dt-Ms for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 04:59:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTZq8-0007mk-Ju; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 22:58:44 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTZq6-0007lx-5u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 22:58:42 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic307-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.190.33]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTZq4-0000cF-1H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 22:58:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1706327917; bh=Xja5ImZebPfbDof1TKvA20bdBmQKarqgaxDU9PHdiwE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=rWE2CWxbt/r3yls4Nimw9posrJ5tyqXScQ03a3fI3xVfKlLrTsXGRclxP3JBF3t2wyZK2Ax38IhZyAqaJWsKTnSsDNyBkn4yuS29+VMyi+Ifh7ALrQRqgENVd/Jv6SA7il8XXy+n6Z+ysNLW4HkQ5Xv+/Cd1IAVRYMi37e0A29069zAAYMA/a6jq0/DwrPN3ZzUKXT3AdEA6/6QDOPNiSnVkwXLsfB0bQd+rNQN/7RLqtXIEPDGnOThBiwpeY1uZAwcqgxXRHRQ0perprgWuYIAptw8qXCCbVujTY26ZonJwvJ57PeMq8YVyRuT0+5twk8AvMu4RuyQuNWXWk5Q0Lw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1706327917; bh=2NmUNyiUpa6gKAuOmslLpKLp3CRpIUg7mF/H51xrynN=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=ihQSJTVpm5yiP6/UbhcLJHe92vsgKkmybkbJNqJQ9yv/nt92xSmvYBKGfYgI/ayPr4PLgIcDX4Ba/a2WYkF29vwFTQVGyhlOqnpBrssytFhypk+RFls0rwbnTSqy2TQzZ13KyGy+xsdKUg1opRZd/6IIHeW8DJVoGa7CezuPDY/sMngztLq+UDfdaShTIZ8Cbqxm4m02yAYrfadJmjPrkZu70A6WjHfp/CCakZ99vMaVrWY0vU69f+trIqEF9EnbVq0sd93+7dXriJG+8rgax3nqLz+PSj3I/Z1K3mbHsVzqamZEx/4Z5i+Skp1Oszc2aji7MfquSy+dBECNLTXXtg== X-YMail-OSG: .zShDyAVM1mGXIdkyDuDU9GBbIYIq.NfFUYXm.FbDov821vTLCfeXzfj8UC.pHN ZaB8KaadsskQ1qdAmwfcpO3WAzzt1tH2KWpqtthpetSF6I2eU2Wf.tDx.64Owz1Pd_uxaDq9eLW9 tp2PxXt1NTd3VAhVU5W9mcFUVIbPGBqm9hryWaghaG80rgvHsometTXUl3Wb2iyXwSu3rBeEgvmA JGmmaZaeJ1164h9A4YwgGMBNRCLIxEaEclMqzZmwlqyICNWmfXgjH3h_1dZQhJt8XwFPhrY3_SGu uTkcELor4fcJ0w1DEAQU3Sl7Ks4gSw8dnqttHzKYL7FMjNSS2YmoFSjTHuunbYk6OAxHF0mdtwM8 e9KK76qr2lbh4V8wvHTxNvi8sq.Cx0zokQV3wGC1VS7q4nPh.7_LViepGLuil1s0lhPNLIwzOkY6 CQC2U.OhjR.NP0u_2ADYHeZkY6oZ8NUB4dqgoW6ydwLOjkUnwc9Fcgg9AWRjScQZD_3d2p.2St6R CudQcY1.TdbJo4sHSJQXuC6s9kIg0gkxPjWa_1IzaBxV8wjD5G0SGYY86803MihC9ugYNingIgxf tBrXlUUEl5evzeoxgPr1Qic.c4lgCxnqKqYgvoAKLkmB6uw.fFtpYuexdzQ3bBjQqUcgJ174vCYA FLulkTGlQfyzR9BfVz53eVghvczwhU8dTjUZVzfZ5syY9zoQT5l9._iy3bpdHOQeYlAKW8yxlsxP Quj5dlS5Q0vEGLw3z1UBwByOZWVcNbm6kYGyEpZ5TljlXTyhVkNgoZImaswicPAWfDMD_ZPU8w3y 4JCZ1rsATC57Lsoc4kRUp7YjhUkhdu5QxeBk7mb6o7 X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: eca671ca-af78-4b96-b4fc-b76f8521654f Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 03:58:37 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-6dc75bc8fb-n9pfz (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6dac161516c1239978acd57d257212ef; Sat, 27 Jan 2024 03:58:34 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <37bf6ee2-3bc0-49e8-aa55-70c77b6c5bf2@gutov.dev> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Sat, 27 Jan 2024 03:44:59 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22046 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.190.33; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic307-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315461 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > But would they, largely? You actually have to visit the directory > which hosts NEWS on your system (where is it installed to?), mark all > previous NEWS files and do the search. That's non-trivial. Is this meant to imply that selecting "Help -> Emacs News", then typing `C-x d' is non-trivial? What about reading the manual, or any other of Emacs's built-in facilities for assisting users? When users are stumped, their first reactions are to reach for the documentation, be that the manual, apropos or NEWS. Perhaps there is a breed of users for whom the package list is the first resort, but for the reasons previously mentioned, the package list is unlikely to help them. The negligible portion of these users who give up after being frustrated by the package list (if they exist at all) will never find the objects of their searches, and won't be affected by decisions to place packages in core or on ELPA. It also stands to reason that users outside the first two categories are more inclined to take to a search engine, and to them this thread will be more enlightening than the package menu ever will. > If you sit every user behind a screen and force them to read either of > the texts entirely, sure. But that's not how it usually works. [...] > It's a good explanation (easier to understand than the summary, I > agree), but I'm curious what would you improve in the summary to make > it more recognizable. Any particular keywords? From where I'm > standing, even after reading the description, all the important ones > seem to be there: "wrap", "adaptive", "line-wrapping", "wrap-prefix". I never proposed to improve the summary, since in my opinion, the current package description is already the optimum under the limitations of its format. > Even if you're reading the NEWS, you probably don't carefully scan > every entry, so there must be some particular words which might have > piqued your interest in the way that the current summary does not. The mental effort required to understand the NEWS and the documentation I installed is so little that, truly, the only words left to be said are "there are none so blind as those who will not see", assuming that the reader is searching for this feature. > The one-liner description indeed needs to be recognizable enough. I cannot imagine how that might be accomplished. Thanks.