From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sebastian Tennant Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: A macro and an unwanted containing list in the resulting form Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:49:10 +0300 Message-ID: <878xbecox5.fsf@moley.org> References: <873b1nye2g.fsf@moley.org> <87abvvv5ob.fsf@thalassa.lan.informatimago.com> <87lkfe7gll.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1180014580 16477 80.91.229.12 (24 May 2007 13:49:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:49:40 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 24 15:49:34 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HrDh4-0004AE-2S for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 15:49:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrDh4-00046w-CE for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 09:49:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HrDgq-00046r-UL for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 09:49:16 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HrDgl-00045r-OX for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 09:49:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HrDgl-00045i-EN for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 09:49:11 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HrDgO-0002Hb-AW for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 09:49:04 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HrDfA-0007m2-Ge for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 May 2007 15:47:32 +0200 Original-Received: from 85.105.17.65 ([85.105.17.65]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 15:47:32 +0200 Original-Received: from sebyte by 85.105.17.65 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 15:47:32 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 48 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 85.105.17.65 User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.0.95 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:K1CRHm/N5Zp6sJfxbLPK+COi3LY= X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:44389 Archived-At: Quoth Tim X : >>> (require 'cl) >>> >>> (defun my-function (string clauses) >>> (loop >>> for clause in clauses >>> until (string= string (car clause)) >>> finally (eval (cdr clause)))) >>> >>> (my-function "goodbye" '(("hello" . (message "hi")) >>> ("goodbye" . (message "bye")))) >>> >> >> Whoa! This isn't LISP! At least it doesn't look like it to me. >> Where are the parentheses? I suppose I haven't got the first idea how >> the Common Lisp 'loop' function works...??? >> >> Sebastian >> > You aren't the first to make those comments. CL's loop is one area > that generally creates considerable debate - som argue its not lispy > and is difficult to master. Others argue its a very powerful > construct that shows what you can do with CL. > > I'm still pretty much a novice with CL and will admit that loop and > format (the CL version) are two aspects of CL that took considerably > more mental effort to understand. I now now reasonably confident > with using format, though I constantly have to check the > references. Loop on the other hand is still a concept I get amazed > by and one I have a lot more work to do with before I can honestly > say I'm confident with. However, like most of the stuff I've done > with CL, its been one of the most rewarding languages I've learnt > for many many years. I also find the different development style of > working in CL extremely rewarding after years of C, C++, Java, Tcl > and Perl. I now find I've gotten to the point that its productive > for me to 'explore' a problem with CL before I start implementing > the solution in another (more readily accepted) language. This > process often exposes subtle issue that are not evident when working > on a solution from an abstract level and I'm finding it saves me > time refactoring or redesigning things to accomadate the increased > understanding that occurs as you work on a problem. Sounds like CL is definitely something worth exploring (there are _so_ many things worth exploring) but it'll have to wait for another day. I'm happy with my new-found grasp of macro-expansion for the time being! Sebastian