From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Pittman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Beginning Hobbyist Programmer Question Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:11:12 +1100 Organization: Cybersource: Australia's Leading Linux and Open Source Solutions Company Message-ID: <878x2ncrsf.fsf@rimspace.net> References: <44129c70-807a-4ef0-bc4f-e299caf5e334@k39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1200655089 25141 80.91.229.12 (18 Jan 2008 11:18:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:18:09 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 18 12:18:27 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JFpEw-0007At-T7 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:18:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JFpEX-0001w2-OH for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 06:18:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JFpEG-0001vs-Jh for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 06:17:44 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JFpEE-0001vF-QW for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 06:17:43 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JFpEE-0001v9-KU for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 06:17:42 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JFpEE-0004RY-7j for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 06:17:42 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JFpE8-00089B-3j for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:17:36 +0000 Original-Received: from ppp59-167-189-244.static.internode.on.net ([59.167.189.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:17:36 +0000 Original-Received: from daniel by ppp59-167-189-244.static.internode.on.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:17:36 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 64 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp59-167-189-244.static.internode.on.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:XqxwyM/NPQvJt0CM1yqSBKJuTK0= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:50796 Archived-At: signups17@gmail.com writes: > Ok, I'm beginning to teach myself the art of computer programming. I'm > starting with Python and I've built a few scripts that have increased > my productivity tremendously at work, doing a lot of data crunching, > etc. > > As I get more and more into programming, I get the sense that "real" > programmers use emacs or vi, or some other editor that from my > perspective, seems arcane and impenetrable compared to something > simple like IDLE that comes with Python, or Scite, for example. No, they don't. A small proportion of them are very vocal about their preferences, and only those two editors tend to excite enough noise and support that you notice them. Eclipse and Visual Studio are extremely popular systems for working with Linux code[1], as are kate, the GNOME text editor, and a bunch of others. > Can anyone provide a cogent explanation for why I should take the time > to climb that learning curve? VI? Because it runs on every Unix in existence, and knowing a visual editor that you can use in more or less the same way on any random Unix system is a great skill to have. Vim? Because you want to run Emacs, but you like an editor with a mode that goes beep and a mode that doesn't. ;) (More seriously: Vim, because you want all the extra bells and whistles integrated into Vi rather than having to shift over to a shell to get at them.) Emacs? Because you want an IDE that is absolutely, totally custom to your needs. (or a mail reader that is, or ...) > What are the benefits, as you see them? For you? None. Learn to program with whatever tools you like. Learn enough of Vi to edit files, even if slowly, because that is a valuable skill -- but a completely different one from programming. > Also, assuming I'm convinced, can you point me in the direction of a > good tutorial? For Vim, which is the stock Vi on many Linux distributions, try :help. For Emacs you can start it up and hit C-h t (control and h, then t) to get to the tutorial. (or just read the front page.) Regards, Daniel Footnotes: [1] Yes, /that/ Visual Studio, on that other platform. I never understood why, but a whole bunch of people I know use it... -- Daniel Pittman Phone: 03 9428 6922 1/130-132 Stawell St, Richmond Web: http://www.cyber.com.au Cybersource: Australia's Leading Linux and Open Source Solutions Company