From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Johannes Weiner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why @#! is not Emacs using the Recycle bin on w32? Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:36:06 +0200 Message-ID: <878wueq1yx.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> References: <48B7288E.3040503@gmail.com> <87wshzpszz.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> <48B87A2D.3050406@emf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1220089635 11829 80.91.229.12 (30 Aug 2008 09:47:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:47:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , Emacs Devel To: Thomas Lord Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 30 11:48:09 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KZN3x-00006Q-1Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:48:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57103 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZN2y-0002kV-8z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:47:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZMsY-0001BP-LV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:36:22 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KZMsX-00019n-F2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:36:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=58809 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KZMsX-00019Q-4v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:36:21 -0400 Original-Received: from saeurebad.de ([85.214.36.134]:54543) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KZMsW-0006TL-IW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:36:20 -0400 Original-Received: by saeurebad.de (Postfix, from userid 107) id ED3EB4A000A; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:36:19 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (217-68-166-87.dynamic.primacom.net [217.68.166.87]) by saeurebad.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D42D4A0008; Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:36:18 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <48B87A2D.3050406@emf.net> (Thomas Lord's message of "Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:37:33 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.1.3 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:103254 Archived-At: Thomas Lord writes: > Johannes Weiner wrote: >> It's called `delete' not `move to somewhere else'. >> > > There's your problem, right there. To many people, > "delete" *means* "move to the trash area" and > "empty trash" means "utterly discard the contents of the > trash". Probably to very few Emacs users. > Early on, when people first started making UIs, > there was a lot of discussion about confirmation > dialogs. For example, some naive systems would > ask, for every file deleted, "Do you really want to > delete this?" And as people studied UIs they realized > that such a question, repeated too often, looses all > meaning. So they invented trash areas ("trash cans," > "recycling bins," etc.). The user can then batch a whole > bunch of deletes at once, no confirmation needed -- but > actually recovering the disk space and/or otherwise making > the deleted file truly gone is a separate operation entirely. > > It's a linguistic confusion between communities, in part. > The other part is that the linguistic community that > takes "delete" to mean "move to trash" -- really has little > or no use for a "delete" command in the Emacs sense and > so is easily unpleasantly surprised when they accidentally > invoke such a command. "Why would the computer ever > do *that*?!?" First of all, you don't do that by accident. You mark the files first and delete in batch afterwards. Secondly, dired's interface resembles the output of an old unix command, so I expect all operations on the listed files to be done in the same flavor. And the documentation right now even tells me that it behaves like `rm'! Changing that would be like teaching `rm' about a trash can. So if you do see a representation of files that seems alien to you, read in the documentation of a program `rm' that doesn't tell you anything and *then go ahead and throw into it your precious files with the expectation that the interface would behave like all other stuff you know while everything else of the program seems different and while knowing in advance that you will later need these files again*... Come on! Hannes