From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim X Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs's popularity Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:33:47 +1100 Organization: Rapt Technologies Message-ID: <878wqg5rzo.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> References: <2103fd36-c5cd-4e8d-a74f-34697a369934@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <003101c954de$f95a3000$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87skop8cc7.fsf@iki.fi> <20081215210907.GB3848@groll.co.za> <00aa01c95f00$fc27b830$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00ad01c95f03$21fae080$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1229424401 325 80.91.229.12 (16 Dec 2008 10:46:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:46:41 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 16 11:47:46 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LCXSr-0005JQ-Kp for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:47:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60310 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LCXRc-0001VS-FP for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:46:28 -0500 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!news.astraweb.com!border1.newsrouter.astraweb.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:SCtyMxQwiexOOOFSrOHYvUbjfX4= Original-Lines: 51 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 06bf7b27.news.astraweb.com Original-X-Trace: DXC=Vd\?W2GT; N9fB5aLm@JgRGTR`=ZX:2[WjN]MSZ1i0hGSUd; ]aL31aUG>4lXM58= Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:165346 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:60677 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman" writes: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Drew Adams wrote: >>> It might also be worthwhile thinking about why vi clones are more >>> popular than Emacs. >> >> Maybe, if specific vi features are found to be important to that popularity and >> those features (or similar) might also make sense for Emacs. > > I think there are other possibilities too. For example it might be > that people are used to that some vi program is always available, vi > starts up quickly. > > Or perhaps it is that vi key bindings are perhaps more well-known > nowadays. Emacs key bindings tend to clash with cua bindings which > probably makes the emacs bindings less wellknown. > I doubt it - despite having used VI for 15 years, I would still say that vi's key bindings and different 'modes' are far more alien to a new user than emacs' (and I realise that modern vi clones are more forgiving in the sense you can use the arrow keys to move around while in insert mode etc). I just think they are different animals. A version of vi is supposed to be guaranteed to be available on any nix system, but emacs is not. Vi is faster to start 'out of the box' and suits a mode of operation that possibly seems more familiar e.g. start the editor, edit, exit the editor etc. the other issue is that we are running very close to theorising about the basis of different editor choices, which has to be the oldest 'religious war' in the tech world. We are never going to resolve or really understand the reason for the differences. Of course, that doesn't stop me from lining up with the emacs team at the next emacs v vi pie throwing contest at the next Linux conference I go to (the last one, some years back was a hel of a lot of fun - until it came to packing my grotty clothes to go home that is! Maybe we should move on to argue why windows is more popular than OSX or Linux or why python is better than perl or why common lisp is better than scheme or why ....... We will never get an answer to these questions, which doesn't mean they shouldn't be considered - only that we shouldn't expect to reach consensus or a good answer. Tim -- tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au