Defaults for Org variables

Defaults for Org variables

[Carsten Dominik]

In a different thread, Sebastian Rose writes:

> Footnotes:
>
> [1] We should discuss this in an extra thread: make log-into-drawer  
> and
>    clocking the default and just have it turned on (is it the
>    default??). It's sooo useful.  And I'm sure, Alice would simply
>    enjoy it (without any customization !!!).

I am always open to discuss new defaults for variables.  However,
let me tell you my motivation for this specific case.

While I agree that it is extremely useful to get notes and clocking
into drawers,  this is a feature that is quite magical for a new
user and maybe hard to understand.  I mean, you clock in an nothing
happens - sort of.  This is why I felt it is better to just have
this stuff plainly visible in the buffer when Org comes out of
the box.

But I can always be convinced otherwise.  Comments on this and any
other variables are welcome in this thread.

- Carsten

Re: Defaults for Org variables

[Sebastian Rose]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@uva.nl> writes:
> In a different thread, Sebastian Rose writes:
>
>> Footnotes:
>>
>> [1] We should discuss this in an extra thread: make log-into-drawer and
>>    clocking the default and just have it turned on (is it the
>>    default??). It's sooo useful.  And I'm sure, Alice would simply
>>    enjoy it (without any customization !!!).
>
> I am always open to discuss new defaults for variables.  However,
> let me tell you my motivation for this specific case.
>
> While I agree that it is extremely useful to get notes and clocking
> into drawers,  this is a feature that is quite magical for a new
> user and maybe hard to understand.  I mean, you clock in an nothing
> happens - sort of.  This is why I felt it is better to just have
> this stuff plainly visible in the buffer when Org comes out of
> the box.

Hmm - I see.

You're talking about drawers only. Is the clocking feature on by
default? I still have this function in my setup:

  
 (defun sr-org-todo-state-toggled()
  "Start the clock, if the state of a todo item changes to 'STARTED'."
  (if(string= "STARTED" state)
      (org-clock-in)
    (org-clock-out-if-current)))

 (setq org-after-todo-state-change-hook 'sr-org-todo-state-toggled)


There is some guidance, actually more than most of the other modes
provide. The user can access the clocked task (and clock out) simply
through the modeline menu.  That modeline entry seems to be on by
default, as I can't find anything about it in my setup.

Once clocked in, the user is prompted, if she wants to clock out when
exiting Emacs.


I have to admit, that I'm not aware of the defaults anymore (didn't use
them since a year or so). I'll have to create another user on my system,
to check :)



   Sebastian

Re: Defaults for Org variables

[Carsten Dominik]

On Sep 16, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Sebastian Rose wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <dominik@uva.nl> writes:
>> In a different thread, Sebastian Rose writes:
>>
>>> Footnotes:
>>>
>>> [1] We should discuss this in an extra thread: make log-into- 
>>> drawer and
>>>   clocking the default and just have it turned on (is it the
>>>   default??). It's sooo useful.  And I'm sure, Alice would simply
>>>   enjoy it (without any customization !!!).
>>
>> I am always open to discuss new defaults for variables.  However,
>> let me tell you my motivation for this specific case.
>>
>> While I agree that it is extremely useful to get notes and clocking
>> into drawers,  this is a feature that is quite magical for a new
>> user and maybe hard to understand.  I mean, you clock in an nothing
>> happens - sort of.  This is why I felt it is better to just have
>> this stuff plainly visible in the buffer when Org comes out of
>> the box.
>
> Hmm - I see.
>
> You're talking about drawers only. Is the clocking feature on by
> default? I still have this function in my setup:
>
>
> (defun sr-org-todo-state-toggled()
>  "Start the clock, if the state of a todo item changes to 'STARTED'."
>  (if(string= "STARTED" state)
>      (org-clock-in)
>    (org-clock-out-if-current)))
>
> (setq org-after-todo-state-change-hook 'sr-org-todo-state-toggled)

I don't think this can be the default, I am not sure all people
would use it like this.  Bernt, for example, has many STARTED entries
around at any time.

>
>
> There is some guidance, actually more than most of the other modes
> provide. The user can access the clocked task (and clock out) simply
> through the modeline menu.  That modeline entry seems to be on by
> default, as I can't find anything about it in my setup.
>
> Once clocked in, the user is prompted, if she wants to clock out when
> exiting Emacs.
>
>
> I have to admit, that I'm not aware of the defaults anymore (didn't  
> use
> them since a year or so). I'll have to create another user on my  
> system,
> to check :)

Or just call org-submit-bug-report which will show you all your non- 
default
settings, including hooks.

- Carsten

Re: Defaults for Org variables

[Sebastian Rose]

Carsten Dominik <dominik@uva.nl> writes:
>> (defun sr-org-todo-state-toggled()
>>  "Start the clock, if the state of a todo item changes to 'STARTED'."
>>  (if(string= "STARTED" state)
>>      (org-clock-in)
>>    (org-clock-out-if-current)))
>>
>> (setq org-after-todo-state-change-hook 'sr-org-todo-state-toggled)
>
> I don't think this can be the default, I am not sure all people
> would use it like this.  Bernt, for example, has many STARTED entries
> around at any time.


Same here. But working on exactly one at a time.

The hook function works only on the one task I toggle.

If I stop working on an STARTED task that is not yet finished, I use
`C-c C-x C-o' to clock out.

Switching a task from TODO to STARTED means I'm starting to work on it,
and therefor I want to clock in.

Switching the task to `DONE' means I'm done with it, and therefor I want
to clock out.


I found this on the list or somewhere, and it's exactly useful if, you
need/want to clock each task you work on.
Well, clocking work time is my primary use case for Org-mode.

I never switched tasks using the modeline menu yet. Maybe an additional
function is needed to clock out the current task and clock in the next
one, I don't know.  I tend to go back to the entry and add some notes,
e.g. how a problem was solved, and clock out then.




>> I have to admit, that I'm not aware of the defaults anymore (didn't use
>> them since a year or so). I'll have to create another user on my system,
>> to check :)
>
> Or just call org-submit-bug-report which will show you all your non-
> default
> settings, including hooks.

Ahh, that's a great tip.
Looking at the bug report, I cannot believe I set that many values
myself.
But, yes, it seems I did :)


  Sebastian

Re: Defaults for Org variables

[Carsten Dominik]

On Sep 17, 2009, at 12:06 AM, Sebastian Rose wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <dominik@uva.nl> writes:
>>> (defun sr-org-todo-state-toggled()
>>> "Start the clock, if the state of a todo item changes to 'STARTED'."
>>> (if(string= "STARTED" state)
>>>     (org-clock-in)
>>>   (org-clock-out-if-current)))
>>>
>>> (setq org-after-todo-state-change-hook 'sr-org-todo-state-toggled)
>>
>> I don't think this can be the default, I am not sure all people
>> would use it like this.  Bernt, for example, has many STARTED entries
>> around at any time.
>
>
> Same here. But working on exactly one at a time.
>
> The hook function works only on the one task I toggle.
>
> If I stop working on an STARTED task that is not yet finished, I use
> `C-c C-x C-o' to clock out.
>
> Switching a task from TODO to STARTED means I'm starting to work on  
> it,
> and therefor I want to clock in.
>
> Switching the task to `DONE' means I'm done with it, and therefor I  
> want
> to clock out.
>
>
> I found this on the list or somewhere, and it's exactly useful if, you
> need/want to clock each task you work on.
> Well, clocking work time is my primary use case for Org-mode.
>
> I never switched tasks using the modeline menu yet. Maybe an  
> additional
> function is needed to clock out the current task and clock in the next
> one, I don't know.  I tend to go back to the entry and add some notes,
> e.g. how a problem was solved, and clock out then.

I see.  Still, while this is very useful, it is still quite workflow  
dependent...

- Carsten

>
>
>
>
>>> I have to admit, that I'm not aware of the defaults anymore  
>>> (didn't use
>>> them since a year or so). I'll have to create another user on my  
>>> system,
>>> to check :)
>>
>> Or just call org-submit-bug-report which will show you all your non-
>> default
>> settings, including hooks.
>
> Ahh, that's a great tip.
> Looking at the bug report, I cannot believe I set that many values
> myself.
> But, yes, it seems I did :)
>
>
>  Sebastian

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prof.dr. Carsten Dominik				dominik@uva.nl
Astronomical Institute 'Anton Pannekoek' 	 	www.astro.uva.nl/~dominik
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