From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r99650: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX. Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:10:24 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <878w9te9rj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83pr371rl2.fsf@gnu.org> <873a03pmgn.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87d3z7pfwc.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <878w9v1k1v.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87r5nmo11z.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <1sq077-e9o.ln1@news.eternal-september.org> <8cv077-871.ln1@news.eternal-september.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268676703 22117 80.91.229.12 (15 Mar 2010 18:11:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:11:43 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 15 19:11:38 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NrElJ-00014s-3e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:11:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52745 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NrElI-0001MT-7i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:11:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NrElB-0001Jo-Dv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:11:25 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=59877 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NrEl7-0001BG-47 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:11:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NrEl5-0001rh-1x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:11:20 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:39736) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NrEl4-0001qm-OK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:11:19 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NrEkt-0000oL-I0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:11:07 +0100 Original-Received: from p5b2c2408.dip.t-dialin.net ([91.44.36.8]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:11:07 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by p5b2c2408.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:11:07 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 33 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p5b2c2408.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.92 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:hVwsIiKTxjhccQFTD8tg5qP2qWk= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122016 Archived-At: Richard Riley writes: > Miles Bader writes: > >> Richard Riley writes: >>> You keep calling things that are pretty obvious and core to UI design >>> issues "flimsy" while offering little in objection. I guess your mind is >>> made up. >> >> And you keep throwing up random unsubstantiated hand-waving as if it's >> somehow authoritative. > > What have I said that is any way random? You made that up to camouflage > your wishy washy defence for not supporting the rhs. There are plenty of > authoritative HCI studies which support UI controls being consistent > across desktop applications. I assumed you would have known that so I > didn't go into more detail. Emacs is not consistent "across desktop applications" in pretty much every other aspect if we consider out-of-emacs experiences (which become increasingly less frequent the more you learn to use Emacs for a multitude of tasks). We don't adopt other conventions blindly. So if you want to make a point worth considering, repeatedly merely stating "everybody else does it" without even bothering to address actual usability considerations made by others will not serve to support your point. Mindless repetition is not adding information to intelligent discourse, even though our culture sometimes makes that hard to forget. -- David Kastrup