From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: line-move-visual Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 15:00:39 +0200 Organization: University Koblenz-Landau Campus Koblenz Message-ID: <878w6vq7ew.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> References: <87pr07qjio.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1291827396 21052 80.91.229.12 (8 Dec 2010 16:56:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 16:56:36 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 08 17:56:31 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PQNJc-000827-4m for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 17:56:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51375 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PQNJb-0003mj-Ng for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 11:56:27 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!kanaga.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!news.uni-kl.de!cache.uni-koblenz.de!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs Original-Lines: 45 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: tsdh.uni-koblenz.de Original-X-Trace: cache.uni-koblenz.de 1275656441 26084 141.26.67.142 (4 Jun 2010 13:00:41 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: news@cache.uni-koblenz.de Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 13:00:41 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:nfJKiNBdhnQCDr36fd26/VCcOeo= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:178621 comp.emacs:99893 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:75652 Archived-At: Uday S Reddy writes: >> With line-move-visual set to t (the default), only vertical motion >> commands use visual lines, but for example C-a / C-e still use >> logical lines. From my point of view, that's a silly compromise. > > Agreed. That means that line-move-visual is not doing what it says on > the box. I don't see a compelling reason why C-n and C-p should move > by "visual lines" outside of visual-line-mode. Perhaps it was a bad > idea. I remember that people (including RMS) tested line-move-visual and concluded that this is ok, but full visual-line-mode would be too radical. > In the emacs-developers list, I see that line-move-visual came first > and visual-line-mode was invented later. I'm not completely sure about that. >> But all visual line behavior break keyboard macros. Define a macro, >> then change your window size (so that lines are differently visually >> wrapped), and *bang* your macro messes up your text. It's semantics >> change with the frame/window size. That's silly. > > If these macros are dealing with visual-line-mode then I wonder what > yo do that is sensitive to the line length. > > If they are dealing with normal text with line breaks, then perhaps > all that you need to do is to use forward-line instead of next-line? Well, the save solution is to enable `truncate-lines' (M-x toggle-truncate-lines) before defining and executing a keyboard macro. Then lines aren't wrapped, and there's no difference between logical and visual lines anymore. IMO, that should be done automatically. But others argue, that a keyboard macro should act exactly as doing the same stuff manually. Then it's correct that a macro executed with VLM on or line-move-visual set to t behaves differently depending on how text is visualized, which includes window width, font size and other pitfalls you haven' thought about... Bye, Tassilo