From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:01:24 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <878w6qnayj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1275925168 22543 80.91.229.12 (7 Jun 2010 15:39:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 15:39:28 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 07 17:39:27 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OLeQA-0005Xr-6J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:39:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60304 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OLeQ9-0002nY-F8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:39:25 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=48535 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OLdpv-0001QP-AM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:02:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OLdpf-0000EG-1h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:01:46 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:47326) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OLdpe-0000E2-MI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:01:42 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OLdpc-00079M-5C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:01:40 +0200 Original-Received: from p5b2c2eef.dip.t-dialin.net ([91.44.46.239]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:01:40 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by p5b2c2eef.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:01:40 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ connect(): No such file or directory Original-Lines: 34 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p5b2c2eef.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:KPCWm0PO9rK8vrju2hbo2346X88= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125584 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Since we opened that can of worms already by making C-f/C-b do logical >> motion as opposed to the arrow keys doing visual motion, I should think >> it would make sense to disconnect C-n/C-p from the vertical arrow keys >> as well and move them in a non-display-related manner in the "keep the >> same C-f distance from the last LF" sense. > > I have no objection to this suggestion, although I'm not sure when I > personally would use such kind of a down/up-arrow command. Well, in keyboard macros doing work on columnar data you don't want to have them move into wrapped lines. >> likely the same with "C-a" "C-e" for logical movement as contrasted >> to and for visual movement. > > To this, I object. I made the left/right arrows and their > Ctrl-modified siblings move to the left resp. right, regardless of the > logical buffer order, because this is what users of bidirectional > scripts expect -- they are used to it in every other bidi-aware > application out there. By contrast, and always move to > the beginning resp. end of the current line, The left border of the screen is not necessarily the next character after the line feed. > they have no relation to either left or right directions. On my keyboard, the character is inscribed with "Pos1". That is arguably associated with the leftmost column. -- David Kastrup