From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Embedding Emacs in other apps Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:13:39 +0900 Message-ID: <878w5uxn3w.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <878w72nu23.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <8739wz6eyq.fsf@gmail.com> <8739wty62x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <871vbmbqfl.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87lj9uxt7t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278064343 2720 80.91.229.12 (2 Jul 2010 09:52:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:52:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 02 11:52:20 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OUcux-0002Sg-8o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 11:52:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53330 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OUcnc-00081K-7b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 05:44:44 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=40377 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OUcla-0006Zj-Lv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 05:42:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OUclZ-0002IT-JS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 05:42:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:44833) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OUclW-0002Gw-3K; Fri, 02 Jul 2010 05:42:34 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3571535AE; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:18:20 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 246971A291A; Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:13:40 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <87lj9uxt7t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" a03421eb562b XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:126688 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > > > Lennart Borgman writes: > > > > > I think we are in a hurry. The Vim developers are also working on > > > xembed. We must of course be first ;-) > > > > Forget being first. XEmacs has had it since 1998 at the latest. > > So either the feature's potential is overhyped, its use in the existing > XEmacs implementation is too complex to be used by a "typical" > developer, The existing XEmacs implementation is very much a kludge; there was no xembed standard at the time. The major users are large corporations in their internal distributions. They presumably have special applications that makes this useful. > or something else is amiss. Well, yes. What's missing in availability in Emacs. Use of images is a no-brainer, but it took Emacs 10 years to learn to display images, so most libraries don't have facilities for them even today. > > Concentrate on being best, instead. > > Based on your experience with XEmacs, would you have suggestions what > uses this feature has been _advertised_ for (perhaps it was so easy to > get in that no advertisement was needed and consequently nobody got > interested enough to try it?), and what made the advertisements, if any, > fall short in execution of their promises? The big problem is that it requires substantial cooperation between applications because (until xembed, which is a fairly recent standard) the communication protocols had to be designed ad hoc. And even with xembed, it's not clear to me whether it will become more than toy for developers. What we'd really like, I think, would be a common editor protocol so that you could just put firefox*editprotocol: xembed firefox*xembededitor: /usr/bin/emacsclient ! or /usr/bin/vim in .XResources. But xembed doesn't yet give us that.