From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Reuben Thomas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#7986: 23.2.91; Remove unwise advice from manual Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 23:26:37 +0000 Message-ID: <878vxv1ivm.fsf@sc3d.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1296862592 8838 80.91.229.12 (4 Feb 2011 23:36:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 23:36:32 +0000 (UTC) To: 7986@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 05 00:36:24 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PlVCR-0002Wp-Dy for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Feb 2011 00:36:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49623 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PlVCQ-0001xZ-T4 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:36:22 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=50686 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PlVC0-0001jh-TJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:35:58 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PlVBz-0004O4-6V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:35:56 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:54063) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PlVBy-0004Nw-WB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:35:55 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PlUve-0000nO-2l; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:19:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 23:19:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 7986 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.12968615013002 (code B ref -1); Fri, 04 Feb 2011 23:19:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Feb 2011 23:18:21 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PlUuy-0000mM-H8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:18:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PlUuw-0000m9-Io for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:18:19 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PlV3B-0003G7-CO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:26:50 -0500 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:58526) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PlV3B-0003G3-8n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:26:49 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=33490 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PlV39-0008I3-NQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:26:49 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PlV37-0003DX-Pe for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:26:47 -0500 Original-Received: from exprod7ob107.obsmtp.com ([64.18.2.166]:51906) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PlV37-0003DR-Dd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:26:45 -0500 Original-Received: from source ([74.125.82.182]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob107.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTUyLMl+sE7V9NsI5ueqjiPlQlt53sCeN@postini.com; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 15:26:44 PST Original-Received: by wyf19 with SMTP id 19so2835227wyf.27 for ; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 15:26:41 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.216.141.16 with SMTP id f16mr11199452wej.80.1296861999982; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 15:26:39 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from canta (87-194-87-241.bethere.co.uk [87.194.87.241]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r6sm694238weq.44.2011.02.04.15.26.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 04 Feb 2011 15:26:38 -0800 (PST) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Received-From: 64.18.2.166 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 199.232.76.165 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:19:02 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:43953 Archived-At: In =E2=80=9CHooks for Loading=E2=80=9D the manual says: But it is OK to use `eval-after-load' in your personal customizations if you don't feel that they must meet the design standards for programs meant for wider use. This sort of advice tends to be unwise to give, because people write code for their own use, then later distribute it and forget to clean it up. In any case, the solutions in this case, as explained in the previous paragraph: Normally, well-designed Lisp programs should not use `eval-after-load'. If you need to examine and set the variables defined in another library (those meant for outside use), you can do it immediately--there is no need to wait until the library is loaded. If you need to call functions defined by that library, you should load the library, preferably with `require' (*note Named Features::). are easier to write than the bad code. Hence, I suggest the offending paragraph (the first one I quoted above) be removed. In GNU Emacs 23.2.91.4 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.22.0) of 2011-01-13 on canta Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.10900000 Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Info Minor modes in effect: diff-auto-refine-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t recentf-mode: t show-paren-mode: t savehist-mode: t minibuffer-electric-default-mode: t iswitchb-mode: t icomplete-mode: t global-whitespace-mode: t global-auto-revert-mode: t desktop-save-mode: t yas/global-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t column-number-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: C-n C-n C-n C-n C-p C-p C-f C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-p C-p C-p C-p=20 C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p=20 C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p=20 C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p=20 C-p C-p C-p C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-s ; ; ; C-a C-s c u s t o m =20 o m C-s C-s C-a C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p=20 C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p=20 C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p=20 C-p C-p C-p C-p C-p C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n=20 C-n C-n C-SPC C-n C-n C-n C-w M-x r e p o r t - e m=20 a c s - b u g Recent messages: Mark set Quit Type "q" to restore this window. Mark set Mark saved where search started Making completion list... [5 times] Note: file is write protected Mark saved where search started [3 times] Mark set Read only text copied to kill ring Load-path shadows: /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/ruby-mode-1.1/ruby-mode hides /usr/share/emacs-snap= shot/site-lisp/ruby1.8-elisp/ruby-mode /home/rrt/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/popup hides /usr/local/share/emacs/23= .2.91/site-lisp/auto-complete/popup /home/rrt/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/fuzzy hides /usr/local/share/emacs/23= .2.91/site-lisp/auto-complete/fuzzy /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/css-mode-1.0/css-mode hides /usr/local/share/emacs/= 23.2.91/site-lisp/css-mode/css-mode /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/dictionary-1.8.7/link hides /usr/local/share/emacs/= 23.2.91/site-lisp/dictionary-el/link /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/dictionary-1.8.7/connection hides /usr/local/share/= emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/dictionary-el/connection /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/dictionary-1.8.7/dictionary-init hides /usr/local/s= hare/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/dictionary-el/dictionary-init /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/dictionary-1.8.7/dictionary hides /usr/local/share/= emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/dictionary-el/dictionary /home/rrt/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/dict hides /usr/local/share/emacs/23.= 2.91/site-lisp/emacs-goodies-el/dict /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/css-mode-1.0/css-mode hides /usr/local/share/emacs/= 23.2.91/lisp/textmodes/css-mode /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/ruby-mode-1.1/ruby-mode hides /usr/local/share/emac= s/23.2.91/lisp/progmodes/ruby-mode /home/rrt/.emacs.d/elpa/css-mode-1.0/css-mode hides /usr/share/emacs/site-l= isp/css-mode/css-mode /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/tex-info hides /usr/share/e= macs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-info /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/context-nl hides /usr/share= /emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context-nl /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/context-en hides /usr/share= /emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context-en /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/latex hides /usr/share/emac= s/site-lisp/auctex/latex /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/tex-mik hides /usr/share/em= acs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-mik /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/dictionary-el/lpath hides /usr/sha= re/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/lpath /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/tex-buf hides /usr/share/em= acs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-buf /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/tex-jp hides /usr/share/ema= cs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-jp /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/tex-bar hides /usr/share/em= acs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-bar /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/tex hides /usr/share/emacs/= site-lisp/auctex/tex /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/multi-prompt hides /usr/sha= re/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/multi-prompt /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fptex hides /usr/share/= emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fptex /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/tex-font hides /usr/share/e= macs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-font /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fold hides /usr/share/e= macs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fold /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/texmathp hides /usr/share/e= macs/site-lisp/auctex/texmathp /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/context hides /usr/share/em= acs/site-lisp/auctex/context /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/font-latex hides /usr/share= /emacs/site-lisp/auctex/font-latex /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/bib-cite hides /usr/share/e= macs/site-lisp/auctex/bib-cite /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/toolbar-x hides /usr/share/= emacs/site-lisp/auctex/toolbar-x /usr/local/share/emacs/23.2.91/site-lisp/auctex/tex-style hides /usr/share/= emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-style Features: (pc-select cua-base vcursor table reveal picture hl-line gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 epg-config mm-view smime dig gnus-sum nnoo gnus-group gnus-undo nnmail mail-source format-spec gnus-start gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win gnus gnus-ems shadow sort mail-extr message sendmail ecomplete rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailcap mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 qp ietf-drums mailabbrev nnheader gnus-util netrc time-date mm-util mail-prsvr gmm-utils mailheader canlock hashcash mail-utils emacsbug cl-specs edebug debug find-func grep compile dired log-view pcvs-util add-log diff-git diff-mode vc-sccs vc-svn vc-rcs vc-dir ewoc vc vc-dispatcher nroff-mode newcomment multi-isearch ansi-color shell pp dictionary link connection gud help-mode cus-edit m4-mode make-mode autoconf autoconf-mode view noutline outline tex-info texinfo tex sh-script executable longlines vc-git inform-mode parse-time vc-cvs vc-bzr sha1 hex-util face-remap filladapt flyspell jka-compr info completing-help recentf tree-widget wid-edit uniquify paren savehist minibuf-eldef iswitchb icomplete whitespace autorevert time cus-start cus-load desktop server php-mode etags cc-langs cc-mode cc-fonts cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe lua-mode regexp-opt comint ring ropemacs pymacs etags-update smart-quotes ffap ispell auto-dictionary-autoloads css-mode-autoloads dictionary-autoloads diff-git-autoloads dired-isearch-autoloads full-ack-autoloads guess-style-autoloads js2-mode-autoloads kill-ring-search-autoloads lambdacalc-autoloads magit-autoloads mv-shell-autoloads ruby-mode-autoloads tumble-autoloads http-post-simple-autoloads package reporter advice advice-preload yasnippet help-fns derived edmacro kmacro easymenu assoc cl cl-19 muse-autoloads emacs-goodies-el emacs-goodies-custom emacs-goodies-loaddefs easy-mmode bbdb-autoloads preview-latex tex-site auto-loads tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd font-setting tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mldrag mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev loaddefs button minibuffer faces cus-face files text-properties overlay md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dbusbind system-font-setting font-render-setting gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs) --=20 http://rrt.sc3d.org/