From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Package initialization Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:45:23 +0200 Message-ID: <878uaaovp8.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <21933.56924.106866.159473@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1437463892 13167 80.91.229.3 (21 Jul 2015 07:31:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:31:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Helmut Eller , Stefan Monnier , Artur Malabarba , emacs-devel To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 21 09:31:28 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZHS1P-0000jl-CM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:31:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58235 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZHS1O-0003ex-9D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 03:31:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54587) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZHS1K-0003eh-R3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 03:31:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZHS1J-0008Mp-R9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 03:31:22 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37434) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZHS1E-0008JF-JZ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 03:31:16 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51253 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ZHS1D-0006C0-U9; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 03:31:16 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id ABC86DF38A; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:45:23 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <21933.56924.106866.159473@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:53:32 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188031 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > Stefan Monnier writes: > > > >> The important aspect is that it should be possible to install a pac= kage > > >> without using it, so the autoloads file should only set things up so > > >> that they *can* be used, but not so that they're automatically used > > >> without being explicitly requested. > [...] > > > It also seems to me that there is a certain conflict between what you > > > say and this from the manual: > >=20 > > > These autoload definitions are saved to a file named > > > =E2=80=98NAME-autoloads.el=E2=80=99 in the content directory. The= y are typically used > > > to autoload the principal user commands defined in the package, but > > > they can also perform other tasks, such as adding an element to > > > =E2=80=98auto-mode-alist=E2=80=99. > >=20 > > I don't see a conflict there. Opening a file with the particular > > extension counts as an "explicit request". > > For a major mode, usually[1], for a minor mode (as slime-mode is), > rarely[2]. IMHO YMMV etc. > > Footnotes:=20 > [1] Unfortunately overloaded extensions are hardly uncommon. Or overloaded modes. AUCTeX provides major modes different from the default TeX major modes. When it is activated system-wide, it provides an easy customization of modes it should keep its fingers off, and without further configuration it does not activate its extensive information parsing and caching so that people without interest in TeX for which TeX-mode gets triggered when browsing directories do not get unexpected delays or files lying around. That's a heavy load of compromises. I can't remember when we had the last complaint that AUCTeX was doing something the user did not expect (in general, plain TeX users don't get reasonable value from AUCTeX and don't care for "fancy" anyway, but it's been long since the last one asked how to turn it off). We do get occasional complaints that AUCTeX is doing less than the user expects (pointing to the first page of the manual helps). So it would seem that we are rather erring on the conservative side. --=20 David Kastrup