From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: char equivalence classes in search - why not symmetric? Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 05:10:33 +0900 Message-ID: <878u8p529y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <2a7b9134-af2a-462d-af6c-d02bad60bbe8@default> <55E5C9AC.3010007@lanl.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1441138276 27200 80.91.229.3 (1 Sep 2015 20:11:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 20:11:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 01 22:11:08 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWrtb-0001Yq-7Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 22:11:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58106 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWrtb-0007vK-9S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 16:11:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51202) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWrtC-0007v3-Lt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 16:10:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWrt7-0005ne-Mb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 16:10:42 -0400 Original-Received: from shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.161]:49226) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWrt7-0005nX-CZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 16:10:37 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 241A61C38DD; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 05:10:34 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EFFC911EF83; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 05:10:33 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" ffb5abc8dc4e XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x (barebone) [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 130.158.97.161 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:189421 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > > Because having both input characters mean the same thing > > uselessly deprives the user of expressive power. > > Examples/arguments/reasons, please. IOW, prove it. With "a" and "A" as distinct entities I can express either of two things in one character. If I equivalence them, I can only express one thing. 2 > 1. Q.E.D. On the contrary, "we could have an option" is not a reason for having the option. We now have a working approach which has the advantage of being modeless while not imposing an excessive efficiency burden. By that I mean capitalized words are relatively uncommon, and therefore not likely to constitute a huge number of unwanted "hits" in an isearch for an entirely lowercase string. I'm not *sure* the same efficiency will be true for "accent folding", but you cannot possibly be sure it's false. The current approach is good enough for now, and experience will accumulate over time. Wait for it. > You can always toggle char folding, just as you can toggle > case folding. Modal behavior in user commands is generally avoided in Emacs where it isn't absolutely necessary. Bottom line, burden of proof is on *you*. > IMO, You repeatedly mention your opinion in the same message where you ask others to prove things. Yet your opinion is not evidence for anything except your opinion. > Let users decide whether matching is symmetric or asymmetric. I say to them: "Use the source, Luke!"