From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Questioning the new behavior of `open-line'. Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 16:38:06 +0100 Message-ID: <878u63p6sh.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <87vb98csu1.fsf@red-bean.com> <87h9kscqig.fsf@red-bean.com> <83vb98jqwp.fsf@gnu.org> <87k2poba1s.fsf@red-bean.com> <83si4cjnyw.fsf@gnu.org> <87twosp5ke.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87fv0cm64g.fsf@gmx.us> <87si4bsktk.fsf@red-bean.com> <87wptnlbl6.fsf@gmx.us> <87pozfl2ut.fsf@gmx.us> <87d1vfl17p.fsf@gmx.us> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1447342726 30480 80.91.229.3 (12 Nov 2015 15:38:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 15:38:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Artur Malabarba , Rasmus , Emacs developers To: Yuri Khan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 12 16:38:45 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwtxU-0005JF-L1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 16:38:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47412 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwtxU-0000Kt-0d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 10:38:44 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38885) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwtx6-0000Jf-6S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 10:38:25 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwtx2-0007UZ-Ag for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 10:38:20 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53639) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwtwu-0007ST-8i; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 10:38:08 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39225 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwtwt-0003db-8J; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 10:38:07 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CA566DF7C0; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 16:38:06 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Yuri Khan's message of "Thu, 12 Nov 2015 20:54:21 +0600") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:194236 Archived-At: Yuri Khan writes: > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:52 PM, Rasmus wrote: >>> Arguably, they should be solved by adding that heuristic, not by >>> breaking open-line and/or newline-and-indent. >> >> Perhaps, until such a fix exists, to this and any similar problem, Emacs >> can afford to offer "dumb" keys alongside indenting keys. > > Possibly, if Emacs offers =E2=80=9Cdumb=E2=80=9D keys, no one will be suf= ficiently > annoyed to actually implement the fix. Emacs will never be perfect in all respects, not least of all because some indentations are motivated by aesthetic criteria and by judgment calls on different criteria than Emacs uses. To intentionally make it annoying to work around bad decisions in order to make developers change Emacs is just stupid because the fallout will hit first and foremost the users rather than the developers even if we hypothesize that for every code there is exactly one correct and desirable and machine-determinable way to indent it. --=20 David Kastrup