bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[David Ernst]

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This bug report will be sent to the Free Software Foundation,
not to your local site managers!
Please write in English if possible, because the Emacs maintainers
usually do not have translators to read other languages for them.

Your bug report will be posted to the bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org mailing list,
and to the gnu.emacs.bug news group.

Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug
and the precise symptoms of the bug.  If you can, give
a recipe starting from `emacs -Q':

emacs from:
http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/emacs/windows/emacs-23.2-bin-i386.zip

I.
1. runemacs.exe -Q
2. M-x describe-fontset
3. return
4. in *Help*-Buffer
5. page down or
6. C-s mule

*bang*

II.
1. runemacs.exe -Q
2. C-h h

*bang*

see crash.png

If Emacs crashed, and you have the Emacs process in the gdb debugger,
please include the output from the following gdb commands:
    `bt full' and `xbacktrace'.
For information about debugging Emacs, please read the file
c:/Programme/my/emacs-23.2/etc/DEBUG.


In GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2010-05-08 on G41R2F1
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags
-Ic:/xpm/include'

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: DEU
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: cp1252
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Fundamental

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
M-x <up> <down> <down> <down> <down> <backspace> <backspace>
<backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace>
<backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace>
<backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace>
<backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace>
<help-echo> <down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> r e p o r t <tab>
<return>

Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
goto-history-element: Beginning of history; no preceding item
call-interactively: Text is read-only
call-interactively: End of buffer

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr message ecomplete rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec
password-cache mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailcap mail-parse rfc2231
rfc2047 rfc2045 qp ietf-drums mailabbrev nnheader gnus-util netrc
time-date mm-util mail-prsvr gmm-utils wid-edit mailheader canlock sha1
hex-util hashcash mail-utils emacsbug tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks
lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 disp-table ls-lisp w32-win w32-vars
tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page menu-bar
rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mldrag mouse jit-lock font-lock
syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang
vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek
romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese
case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev loaddefs button
minibuffer faces cus-face files text-properties overlay md5 base64
format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
backquote make-network-process multi-tty emacs)

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bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[Robert Cochran]

Windows XP has been completely EOL'd since April 8, 2014 (a little over
2 years at the time of writing). I'm not entirely sure of the official
policy on supporting OSes that are no longer supported by their vendor,
but I'm having a hard time imagining anyone using Emacs on Windows XP as
a development environment. I'm also thinking not very many people even
still have XP somewhere to test if this bug still exists - I certainly
don't.

The only thing that we can reasonably do IMO is check newer Windows and
see if problems persist.
-- 
~Robert Cochran

GPG Fingerprint - E778 2DD4 FEA6 6A68 6F26  AD2D E5C3 EB36 4886 8871

bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[npostavs]

[Adding David Ernst back on cc, on the off chance he might still be
interested after all these years]

Robert Cochran <robert-emacs@cochranmail.com> writes:

> Windows XP has been completely EOL'd since April 8, 2014 (a little over
> 2 years at the time of writing). I'm not entirely sure of the official
> policy on supporting OSes that are no longer supported by their
> vendor,

Well, in practice the policy is that we support whatever people are
willing to provide support for.  And Eli is willing to support Windows
versions that are even older than XP.

> The only thing that we can reasonably do IMO is check newer Windows and
> see if problems persist.

This sounds a lot like 23935 (i.e., it's likely to be font-specific),
though Drew reported (on Windows 7) that 24.5, 23.4.1, and 22.3 did not
crash when displaying HELLO.  I think we may as well close both as
unreproducible, as there doesn't seem to be any possiblity of making
progress on them.

bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[Drew Adams]

> This sounds a lot like 23935 (i.e., it's likely to be font-specific),
> though Drew reported (on Windows 7) that 24.5, 23.4.1, and 22.3 did not
> crash when displaying HELLO.  I think we may as well close both as
> unreproducible, as there doesn't seem to be any possiblity of making
> progress on them.

Yes, the systematic crash I reported does not occur prior to Emacs 25
(I reported on a pretest).  And yes, I'm using Windows 7, 64-bit.

bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Robert Cochran <robert-emacs@cochranmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:07:51 -0700
> 
> I'm having a hard time imagining anyone using Emacs on Windows XP as
> a development environment.

I do.

bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[martin rudalics]

>> I'm having a hard time imagining anyone using Emacs on Windows XP as
>> a development environment.
>
> I do.

So do I.

martin

bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[Robert Cochran]

martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at> writes:

>>> I'm having a hard time imagining anyone using Emacs on Windows XP as
>>> a development environment.
>>
>> I do.
>
> So do I.

Whatever works for you guys, I guess. I'll be honest, that comes as a
surprise to me. I'd figure most developers would be on a more recent
Windows or a *nix system.

That does leave me curious - why?

-- 
~Robert Cochran

GPG Fingerprint - E778 2DD4 FEA6 6A68 6F26  AD2D E5C3 EB36 4886 8871

bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Robert Cochran <robert-emacs@cochranmail.com>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,  Robert Cochran <robert-emacs@cochranmail.com>,  6180@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:05:34 -0700
> 
> martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at> writes:
> 
> That does leave me curious - why?

Why what? why Windows or why XP?

bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[Robert Cochran]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Why what? why Windows or why XP?

Why XP mostly. I can understand why people may prefer or be forced to
use Windows (even though that's something I personally try hard to
avoid), but I'd figure anyone that could have moved on from XP would
have by now. Especially because, as I mentioned, XP is no longer
receiving any updates or security fixes of any sort, making XP users
relatively more vulnerable (although I acknowledge that the knowledgeable
can take measures to reduce the risk).

If you're still using XP, there's obviously a reason of some sort, by
choice or otherwise. I hadn't realized that some people on the Emacs
lists were still using XP, otherwise I would have responded
differently. Please don't take what I've already said in a negative or
derogatory way.
-- 
~Robert Cochran

GPG Fingerprint - E778 2DD4 FEA6 6A68 6F26  AD2D E5C3 EB36 4886 8871

bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Robert Cochran <robert-emacs@cochranmail.com>
> Cc: Robert Cochran <robert-emacs@cochranmail.com>,  rudalics@gmx.at,  6180@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 21:16:00 -0700
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Why what? why Windows or why XP?
> 
> Why XP mostly.

This is no longer relevant to the bug report, so I will respond on
emacs-devel.

Why Windows XP

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Robert Cochran <robert-emacs@cochranmail.com>
> Cc: Robert Cochran <robert-emacs@cochranmail.com>,  rudalics@gmx.at,  6180@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 21:16:00 -0700
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Why what? why Windows or why XP?
> 
> Why XP mostly. I can understand why people may prefer or be forced to
> use Windows (even though that's something I personally try hard to
> avoid), but I'd figure anyone that could have moved on from XP would
> have by now. Especially because, as I mentioned, XP is no longer
> receiving any updates or security fixes of any sort, making XP users
> relatively more vulnerable (although I acknowledge that the knowledgeable
> can take measures to reduce the risk).
> 
> If you're still using XP, there's obviously a reason of some sort, by
> choice or otherwise.

Basically, I had no reasons to upgrade a well-configured and stable
system.  I had a few reasons not to upgrade, one of them being that XP
is the last version that supports DOS emulation well, so I can still
build and debug the MSDOS port of Emacs.  Later Windows versions have
broken DOS emulations, and the 64-bit versions simply don't have it.

XP is rock-solid, it runs here for months on end without restarting.
And with the regular updates gone, there are no more reasons to
restart it, except rarely, when the antivirus software asks for that.

The importance of security fixes is greatly exaggerated, IMO, for a
system that sits behind 2 routers, each blocking arbitrary access
attempts from outside, and with MUA being Emacs that never does
anything stupid with attachments, unless I am stupid enough to
instruct it (which I'm not).

> I hadn't realized that some people on the Emacs lists were still
> using XP, otherwise I would have responded differently. Please don't
> take what I've already said in a negative or derogatory way.

No offense taken, and I don't think your response could have been
taken as such.

More to the point, we are trying not to break support for old versions
of Windows deliberately.  That could still happen inadvertently,
because we don't have any users on those systems, but we try not to
make changes we know will not work there.  That is why Emacs can still
run on Windows 9X, last time I checked.  The reason is that there are
still a lot of such old installations in many developing countries, so
we try not to prevent them from using Emacs.

bug#6180: 23.2; Windows XP: crash when scrolling down after 'M-x describe-fontset' or 'C-h h'

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > The only thing that we can reasonably do IMO is check newer Windows and
  > see if problems persist.

We can say that we will accept a fix if someone provides one.

Windows -- ANY version of Windows -- is a secondary platform for us.
As is MacOS.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.