From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Robert Pluim Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: ESC vs Meta for shifted keys Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 15:57:34 +0200 Message-ID: <878t9v17w1.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87d0z71985.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1523368581 18222 195.159.176.226 (10 Apr 2018 13:56:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 13:56:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 10 15:56:17 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f5tku-0004b4-NM for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 15:56:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46884 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f5tmy-0007Xh-M3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 09:58:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54632) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f5tmI-0007VK-11 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 09:57:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f5tmE-0007Y1-Pz for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 09:57:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr0-x22e.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e]:45433) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f5tmE-0007XQ-JL for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 09:57:38 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id u11so12910057wri.12 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 06:57:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=u5YWzuHc6j59CXRsY/hsGBnvYo1RP1YS5/1OXvIRtlE=; b=kUYVEhg7ejU/qE5B+KFAgUZyuMUm3NMWcAVN8FaR+4rEzRvKVu2H8HCgFuWjlovp+D 49JHFQ7p0GhAKL3M5YMyKZAj5E50FOn3K5+NMT6DZqm056toVWsWtgZv0sxxL1n7Wrpg MaNmyqerHLUhVEcYoEcpcf6jYY09ciC3A4zneh7SKZ+GV1IQ8UHlNtMxfBV6IikYNFu6 HTjJd8wyQ9zmMwvSsX6jlge2kKivOSegRprhMC0Vt2lsHVfjzhvgzRojXLsw4cIyQXkV q0crDLud4PJ/opuDVEpvHv36ymRwOMjc9z+To/FgzmOP8zODxoQSdomR49EtwWzO495k 9fyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=u5YWzuHc6j59CXRsY/hsGBnvYo1RP1YS5/1OXvIRtlE=; b=LnOp+z56y+SEdL9XuMb1KWA+0gCEB76NY7FvDI9Y8xUjOZ7oureYu353pmnlwFUQiw xQklFF3qvLwaoOZSbQwRm8/s5MvPaazogS55I/qsCco3oOkD5JpZ6dXfygRDxRLGw6kT +VJsxAh/rPwMFUxkXDWdBFT2dcAP4txgVDbTNY9VjCv3w/1p4Yw946aEPVjv9ur1KauD 3699xjv8hwUoRCgkfrbEMHIGwZV24A0OawQpC9gxo1ifK4mdHB8dLdAVOZ8TTvoNQ2dU rn5RNqMSgg8NZX8ofh96dfvv0mWwY5JlQk7j8bTD3UaBvddHIkykGndY0Da04GuXIUCT 0UzA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tAa4xxLXbmsjYGbXzfvnnNECMg/p8HmNMf9SNR6rJkq2IWhtoNf TnYCDesusVNbjrJHEOSzIBxjM8es X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+9EvEM4tSdO3+dCT3+1eHLEbIJoOnlqHR+RlurGGk0GXOQCRflJLgxXXrvoz/Go83ILQzqvg== X-Received: by 10.223.153.114 with SMTP id x105mr437262wrb.108.1523368656994; Tue, 10 Apr 2018 06:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from rpluim ([149.5.228.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t142sm1711068wmt.12.2018.04.10.06.57.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 10 Apr 2018 06:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 10 Apr 2018 09:42:56 -0400") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:116442 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> So I=CA=BCve (finally) got an actual Meta key configured on my >> keyboard. I=CA=BCve always believed that Esc-as-prefix and Meta were >> interchangable, but that doesn=CA=BCt seem to be the case: > > The ESC <-> Meta equivalence only holds for characters, not for > "special keys" such as `left`, indeed. Not sure why. OK. >> So this looks like Emacs is not taking into account the SHIFT modifier >> here? > > What makes you think so? The "translated from" clearly shows that Emacs > saw the shift just fine. You're right, I misinterpreted the results. It looks like emacs ignores the shift if there=CA=BCs no separate binding for the shifted version, and runs whatever's bound to the unshifted version. >> Or is there some default keyboard translation going on that I >> need to disable? > > Why would you need to disable it? > IOW which part of "running left-word when I hit M-S-" annoys you? This came up when running org, inside a table, where M-S- and M- do different things, and neither are the same as ESC-S-. If the Esc <-> Meta were true here they would be easier for me to type, although I can always rebind the ESC versions (or retrain my fingers) Robert