From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Simon Pugnet Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Could Emacs Have a Set-up Wizard? Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2021 13:25:35 +0000 Message-ID: <878s0cjwvs.fsf@polaris64.net> References: <87lf4dwudp.fsf@polaris64.net> <87a6kttwl7.fsf@polaris64.net> <871r65peql.fsf@fastmail.fm> Reply-To: Simon Pugnet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="b1_ekcSkFhw0DucxXiHm9jmNps3zSiC0R8lwDMN3DpWioY" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22783"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Joost Kremers , Emacs developers To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 04 15:50:30 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mMW3y-0005i9-8N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 04 Sep 2021 15:50:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37164 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mMW3x-0002sH-8W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 04 Sep 2021 09:50:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51448) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mMVgC-00046Q-Jl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Sep 2021 09:25:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail1.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.18]:19214) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mMVfy-0007lm-Nk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Sep 2021 09:25:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=polaris64.net; s=protonmail2; t=1630761939; bh=u0hvs9Azliwpva8tLvNGjKp+rRF9ZaOJQBMBbHUXNmM=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=fiMmGKprR5qyczDTIrVRACeigOtj2qxMyODHj6yixI8iVlii9JOBDumONfUbBdI/S 6vdBRfWstB4S0d+YB/3z4eyGNnom9YjLeSGxjfFcj+vSRMlgYuJAHMN1N3DOH0c0nJ T4xG61ddhpS4eUsl4Mm72Ne2cEt2DerdgPvzvUp6nb8bFqunzLjPvRSDSOuNDWAkBu LML+494fQhXV+s729rIHD86q9r/U1sfN12RkjkJiymfYJ0O88QDu+tP9RRcmzifcxc jPY6jpwuJDvlTrmsRyRI3X6DvBshbdjdFZ2QP0AKTrbYCtDVVJYck3IedyY7yirpOs qN0T+LEXV9w/A== In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.18; envelope-from=simon@polaris64.net; helo=mail1.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 04 Sep 2021 09:49:00 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273873 Archived-At: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --b1_ekcSkFhw0DucxXiHm9jmNps3zSiC0R8lwDMN3DpWioY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan Kangas writes: >> A wizard, on the other hand, presents a new user with a couple of choice= s, each >> of which can be explained on the spot and the necessary change to the in= it file >> made visible. Add a comment to each change with the same explanation tha= t >> appears in the wizard and the new user can easily see how to undo the ch= ange if >> they end up not liking it. > > If we could do it well, that sounds like it could be a good idea. > Maybe we could let the user choose such a mode of operation > optionally, while hiding the nitty-gritty details by default. I think it's important to expose the user to the nitty-gritty to some extent. I envisage the wizard as being a first step into learning Emacs, so while it hides the details of how it generates a configuration based on the user's choices it will show the generated code in the end. It could display the init.el buffer after the wizard is complete and then show exactly where this file is saved. As I think was mentioned in this thread earlier too, adding helpful comments above each generated section of configuration would be very important. The goal I think would be to encourage users to fiddle and experiment, but also to allow them to get started right away without having to understand things first. Give someone a configuration and they'll be enlightened for a month, teach them how to build their own configuration and they'll be enlightened for life :) --b1_ekcSkFhw0DucxXiHm9jmNps3zSiC0R8lwDMN3DpWioY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=attachment.sig Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=attachment.sig LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0NCg0KaVFKSUJBRUJDQUF5RmlFRU8vZUYzaFlz QU1qN1RhYjl1aE5acUN3TFB2a0ZBbUV6YzhjVUhITnBiVzl1UUhCdg0KYkdGeWFYTTJOQzV1WlhR QUNna1F1aE5acUN3TFB2bVpLZy8vVXZWKzEreG5laTVhUHN5UUVoOXR0YVZCL0ZXUw0KV0hFT2kz UDBaNkhiTStzQWppWVkwd3FOUFNQc1lkcmFqSWdZdndMRkl5YVBaLytwNUcyUFZsM0ZUMkRISDdD NQ0KdnhzbE1LUFo3ZVhMc2pRMHNOdjBIM2FWbUdmemtxcG5xNmdCZ1BGUExMcnZQZ0RKYnB2UjFN a0hrYlI0a1FNSQ0KZko0V3FaRXlWM2dTc2tNTnlXL0IvbDVTY3NJK245ZEQvaERMZDhmK1FGNHE5 UHRubExNbDRVcGYrQndNRmgxSw0Kb2hnN3U1cEtJK3JLSWk1NGs5UzJyS3Y5T3V6STFiNk5nU0tX VnpicEEvVURkUnVQdktUa1pweUdnMmZpRCtnUA0KYWM5ZlE0T2dhYkVPNnVGZFJuSC9PS0Z2MWxE eDdKYkRxZk5RbkpsYmd5ZUZhdW1sOUpXSWJsOUhzSWxMSGVRUw0KZnJTREVyeGhhMXdxYlg1czND am1reEtVRTh4QUhMUld0TytjQ0dnQTZqWG5Jc29CWnAwd1ByQkE5dm1oQkFOaA0KbGZnVzFIT3V3 TWRYcTRXYzdJWTFNdG1IYmo0OG4zNGE0NEF3ZUtmeitEdDFBSGJZMFlRa0JFcmNNN28zbzMzZg0K M2ZvcmtJRnh2YVREdjZLaWZyY3F1MmFPRWRWUE1TWk03Tk9KYnJUYXc4KzkzTU9KTnk0eGZaaXdG aGovZnpMeg0KYjNsdjlMRnlKUkZvZjEwSnd4UUNBQkdndXhZUmRQL2tYRmwvbGRITGxJV0JzZWpv dWZDRlNvcmZLRHhldkd3bw0KdDltREJicDlEeTJRMDJIWmltL1oyTjN2Z254Vm9kRW9vMUhPVW02 N29zaVNXcjNVcWE5bklKUWQzZ0V4OVBUYg0KREFYL29QYy9jRDJrVEdzPQ0KPXpMZzMNCi0tLS0t RU5EIFBHUCBTSUdOQVRVUkUtLS0tLQ== --b1_ekcSkFhw0DucxXiHm9jmNps3zSiC0R8lwDMN3DpWioY--