From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jose A Ortega Ruiz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [nongnu] elpa/geiser bb9d5cb200: geiser-impl--normalize-method: quick fix for previous change Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 23:07:16 +0000 Message-ID: <878ruza28r.fsf@gnus.jao.io> References: <164339989485.1614.11034229578358286224@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <20220128195815.4DB24C423B9@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <87bkzva8qh.fsf@gnus.jao.io> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18611"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 29 00:18:48 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nDaVz-0004i7-Rc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 00:18:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56446 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDaVy-0004yi-IV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 18:18:46 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38918) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDaKw-0005a7-OH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 18:07:23 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=48306 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDaKv-0007G9-7W; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 18:07:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=3XbfUG70Cg0jRRkOt3Ey7KfSkz2HzcpR2RnegDmIlSM=; b=nOm8Qhg0RWli5WVH+JN2 hYXcgzYRVAEkv6nmJ+vzM2xfEDGoHDsei8ACxANR2AgdaqllNKUqVW0pSROmaSO3jiyvET2jUDwm6 qDxI24/cpBCNUlyvcHyVJqlBIn6Uq6k1Ff3GJ08kl6owJLXJ+/t3HugB1HlMdG/G5aHLgA3OQ3yY2 ELoW6bmpc/O3VM5NpIvcKg3H+XKc4msvKgNba580CKPvBQToQl14Momet8viwLuAsdqmR3+KTAjwd tsE6b7GZ6yRTEt8XlK2MUFRzXAuAWQhVUvfto1dSTS19lyvU0tDLXOh/TwdMPkVdebL+nMYHCNXle Nai+tpDRSCphxA==; Original-Received: from static-68-235-44-25.cust.tzulo.com ([68.235.44.25]:50278 helo=rivendell.localdomain) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDaKt-00007H-QC; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 18:07:19 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (rivendell.localdomain [local]) by rivendell.localdomain (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id 2f30a6b6; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 23:07:16 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: X-Attribution: jao X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett X-URL: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:285533 Archived-At: On Fri, Jan 28 2022, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> yes, that works, but i find it ugly to use eval explictly for the sake >> of not using "a list-that-looks-like-a-function": > > To me, it's being more honest: we have a variable that holds an ELisp > expression, so we need `eval` somwehere. > >> what are the downsides of the latter? i understand that i'd be just >> hiding an implicit eval, but is that all, or am i missing >> other drawbacks? > > There's no serious drawback, no. Here are some minor drawbacks: > - In Common-Lisp and Scheme '(lambda () 5) does not evaluate to > something recognized as a function. Currently ELisp does, but I think > it's something better avoided. I hope in some distant future we can > make the types `function` and `cons` be a mutually-exclusive. > - the function value `(lambda () ,v) returns a function that will > evaluate v using the old dynamically-scoped dialect which we're trying > to phase out. ok, that sounds mildly persuasive, and it's always good to plan for the next 50 years... >> (isn't, loosely speaking, hiding evals one of things macros >> buy us? > > `eval` is used sometimes in macros, but most macros neither use nor hide > `eval`, AFAIK, no. i was thinking of the fact that a (non-hygienic) macro essentially produces a list that is then evaluated for me implicitly. but anyway, it was just a loose association. >> ... the version without eval looks more readable to me). > > My own taste is reflects in the fact that my local Emacs rejects > (lambda ...) as a valid function value ;-) i've pushed a patch using eval... why, it'd be a shame if you couldn't use geiser! ;) thanks, jao -- "Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." -Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man