From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Exposing buffer text modifications to Lisp Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 11:58:50 +0800 Message-ID: <878rpqsm4l.fsf@localhost> References: <83tu8jq2vl.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfo37etn.fsf@localhost> <834k0jplcm.fsf@gnu.org> <878rpuwm9w.fsf@localhost> <83mteao3oj.fsf@gnu.org> <87edzmv3i0.fsf@localhost> <83k09eo1p5.fsf@gnu.org> <878rpuv17q.fsf@localhost> <83fsk2nyrm.fsf@gnu.org> <878rpr4kd4.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15291"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 21 05:58:56 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o3V2W-0003nT-2a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 05:58:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39896 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3V2T-0001I4-Ij for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 23:58:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34304) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3V1J-0000D3-Mn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 23:57:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x32d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::32d]:40936) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o3V1I-0005j1-8b; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 23:57:41 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id s20-20020a056830439400b0060c3e43b548so9792549otv.7; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 20:57:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=/aIKSLdhSSNCwZBVEVbbBDAZjsrSKnw9ddAUPkKdmz0=; b=ZfZUsZe73Csa3a2QlQXs2guSrEwT2SsoYN3pRk3l6Q2RGpXB2rGcfJltUWN18HkONo H1OVI1/tgtXIjG1LvzIIvu1zeZP+aBhBPGsF9g1jqBk3SzWilWBjgo7uO1dciSKJBCAt lf+FTgD+JvlrJdpfktz/g0TdO06aunBNXtVgJa5Z7HaDkfoJElLQPeTK7zcpPSt/Fq+5 ICsBALtG5SQ5KVJsqJBrVH6i2Zm1eY83rYvBIBedFfk9bOtxixgzOA5TM8rP3dScErcM E4/MxeDOLt2zjQZSPxKXE92fatx5yMG2oWEOXC7yoTvK1MEfchCj5JuoBRsdT3DRljMv vlXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=/aIKSLdhSSNCwZBVEVbbBDAZjsrSKnw9ddAUPkKdmz0=; b=vJjPZdNA65WPsiKH7uaDWJChnf29dmFvql0HYmyjl/QWYddGA8GKNvnvK3TYAVCtaS quc65hyIhjB7pccfavDRk+453ci6O+TncKhaP8oX34BNoWhPmqRhWOGjpedW9Gwmbz7b dwle9yCtSLeZzvH1mWSXuk0IdXeGJc5LWiLpMASvCyzKWK2+Uo1w/IJFZu4VnBjEAIk5 xJ/TtMCfpKmZlYIUOOvmF0yhMpjJ9Eag3qMxNBo+X2Dr9CcHlU/aXtZp1mjBxpR22la6 oN7IFp3KlfSlLJRh80DOQ3HOueu8Wgy2d5PM1+5+Kj5zS8Fr6Q2dDlC/g8van4/CzHuF U/Xw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/tHvII+GZ9MuksrI4gmUT5tfuXC0wTZD/X8B0Rs607JM9EnVOe gMIr99DuQVwQp2t72Sh9lSg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1s7qCgxY1/KnBNsjxcMoIf9FD7+s0+4Fp8asfL0oL6zslzt5ullJBumyLutA24igKC6mcuQNA== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7d0d:0:b0:60c:7ae0:fad6 with SMTP id v13-20020a9d7d0d000000b0060c7ae0fad6mr10729321otn.63.1655783858821; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 20:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([207.126.88.10]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i18-20020a056870d41200b001019fb71e4bsm7576425oag.17.2022.06.20.20.57.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 20 Jun 2022 20:57:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::32d; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-ot1-x32d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291479 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 19:58:31 +0800, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >> Eli Zaretskii writes: > > [ .... ] > >> > If you already have a workaround for marker-related problems, then why >> > do you need to hook into insertion and deletion on the lowest level? > >> Because the workaround relies on before/after-change-functions that may >> be suppressed by bad third-party code. > > Why is that your (or our) problem? Code which isn't the major mode > masking out the change functions is just invalid code. Can't you just > document somewhere that before/after-change-functions are an essential > part of Org Mode, and that messing around with them will lead to > unpredictable results? It is indeed possible. However, this particular issue can cause data loss in user files. Which I'd prefer to avoid at all costs. Best, Ihor