From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master baf1a7a4a0: Turn gv-synthetic-place into a function Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 16:36:55 +0200 Message-ID: <878rmenmd4.fsf@web.de> References: <835yhkzmn8.fsf@gnu.org> <878rmfx51p.fsf@web.de> <831qs7zj9e.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8piec78.fsf@web.de> <834jx2xphy.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21627"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 20 20:12:57 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oahjt-0005Rh-5v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 20:12:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47614 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oahjr-0005iU-L2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 14:12:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54068) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oaeMu-0004sV-3W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 10:37:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:34077) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oaeMs-0007cw-EL; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 10:36:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1663684616; bh=kC69qRnwhFKlsiL4HptI7yN9hNlv50itTKe9/6Oa3NE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=q8Jjil2IZhWmZZoj4LI/i1bXXCjNFybBTWpJdPMtRdRnllC7hE2ISrJKzg7IDg8U3 dFDf0Qs9GT4yzfC0+UJou/J4y0na/h+3U/khMUiYvFatWHmkKqBOJMyC7zCrHfa21P /SQiV3BQdFFPmDMmqJu0ppopbkiaPThw9feamtFWAD8CEEFVnx4MR7K4F0fq/ri5eL 8vlOhVk/NDJCE+1CvCHePDB4nKzXeYltm7TU4DgKNW5ssJaBoi+Ma8OWkDy5oCr87M K57Vy/Q7c9fp/T5LyHNpGtEZx9cVtPlJwSBPESFylwtXM4JTKFr/W0AVhkJuNtLv81 u9cgcB1gGlDOQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from drachen.dragon ([94.222.172.180]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb005 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MTvrq-1ojy3e1R8E-00R9NG; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 16:36:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <834jx2xphy.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 20 Sep 2022 14:19:05 +0300") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ct7cIw2Db++W3FQSELXhbp2nsVUyz4gjWwpmIg0JD8pLRmVGHV7 7FFsZa1Ud4NY+TohY6umzd0Qcpz6BXkb/vxw11Pb9+7bH+s2gtirEykaGY3okPrFgGvMXg3 za5atsOLyQw9Ilx1uRhulKBEOcQgGDHb8ApP/BwOCVbcoBkhYwbQTwrV4YetPpJivGIAiFb D2See2JUHwmH8/RMhnRWQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:jK3Iex2ZWao=:Nk+9RylFAczMWZ8g1kWXqA a8b5s3C1vxRD5+YQoVhIZhtPI07QuO0aQ1loUP3UbtWF4aN+yTysGFlSsg0GDXS/BmHIrDgon P2K9ewKLZOKmQaubb3HARs4cASkEzd4QPGNfV4gsAvRkqv39jjK633XgIi9ezCuvQhf2x6LuX Kw3WM2XKz48v6P7lIVfcyFsAierpdr29pkS1pC3EXIWga2GJeiELZace2JD1HoB/RqRWhiCvK k8vAPddzC2eKTmsqWqSLph2hv3P7rDu/l/u8uL5zWrDlT0AzrSKgOloE0mfw9kh0Z8ou3tt7G Jk/OIDYz4rEIwz1JEsAiO2UOs0rPJUNlnVhF7BS2hW8+BPiOG+zggVGwQG4ex7AVrti+xUERG EDo1tJQLHoodXmGW7jOzt1WYCVNZG5N7kWwgGAShMtwI4qarBrgCBfP16N8g2IOh/lsgrliQU cD3KhkpuaHrlfr7dm/m2LnCBJMqbeGsNa7ekILzFuPecSrbyEhQCQOoobrBMl00CoO0kdG5dK 6ISfBVQF9LhGiq9icDkUrk+HTJ0hpBZBDL362b+bLkFRYukXD1sSoyLnw4b7eS9Ui3vs3IR9P wAu4O2paYYbDETkaOloXIjqggW7RCJG3AbQjkR2C5Mt0ZsPeHlKiPs/LgI+Yw2mvIHYy6Yq4/ aL7gkC+hBF4R5f2cMRYpEP+b2vmVeyda8v/qvMkD08iN3fhwVPkmENN79T22TaiHfzf47gvqX JLoGGqSGk1B4YGGcLPgHTTcmhqjZwdr4uZ9tLUKYVJ/rmQA+cMV0H3L7vk6iUbZzWf/QfQYz Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.4; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:295823 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > And if this is the same, how about > > > > > > This function is only useful when used with generalized variables. > > > > I prefer the preposition "in" to "with" which sounds more vague to me. > > What does it mean to "use a function in generalized variables"? how do > you use a function _in_ a variable? A generalized variable is a place (form). You use a function in a place form like you use it in any (normal) form. Just the semantics are different. Like in (car (gv-synthetic-place ...)) > > Also, some people seem to like saying a function "is" a generalized > > variable when it has a gv setter. I'm not sure if they would read you= r > > version as intended. > > Why not? For me, using something "with" something else means "in > conjunction with". Does the latter also sound problematic to you (and > if so, why)? If not, maybe having "in conjunction with" could solve > the issue? I just find "in" more precise: The function (call) is an integral part of the place form, so it's "in" it, textually or syntactically. English is not my first language, so I hope I'm not on a wrong track, but for me "in" sounds more appropriate. If a user reads "in conjunction with" and doesn't know much about generalized variables, she might wonder "Ok, and how? Can I pass generalized variables as arguments?". The relation is not as clear as with "in" IMO. I hope you can follow my concerns. Does it make sense to you? I want to find a wording that potentially leads to as few misinterpretations as possible. Michael.