From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Berman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Pressing ? does not allow window scrolling through the list of info commands Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2023 23:58:44 +0200 Message-ID: <878rbridt7.fsf@rub.de> References: <83bkgoguea.fsf@gnu.org> <837crcgra6.fsf@gnu.org> <83mt07ee2n.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38506"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: uzibalqa Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 07 23:59:09 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qHtTo-0009nc-UY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=stephen.berman@gmx.net; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:144202 Archived-At: On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 19:11:01 +0000 uzibalqa wrote: > ------- Original Message ------- > On Saturday, July 8th, 2023 at 7:06 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrot= e: > > >> > From: Yuri Khan yuri.v.khan@gmail.com >> > Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2023 01:28:29 +0700 >> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> >=20 >> > On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 at 13:39, Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org wrote: >> >=20 >> > > > However, what is the reason for that event loop? >> > >=20 >> > > The reason is to allow return to the manual with minimal fuss. As the >> > > user who invokes "?" is very likely to be a newbie to Emacs, having >> > > them to deal with buffers and windows at this point is unwise, to say >> > > the least. >> >=20 >> > =E2=80=98help-mode-map=E2=80=99 has =E2=80=98q=E2=80=99 bound to =E2= =80=98quit-window=E2=80=99 and that=E2=80=99s the minimal >> > fuss way to return from the help window. It also would help build >> > habits that work with a wide set of buffers in Emacs. >>=20 >>=20 >> And how will we tell the user that 'q' quits? In the echo-area, >> perhaps? >>=20 >> > As it is, the user has to build three sets of habits: (1) for the >> > rudimentary Info-summary modal event loop where SPC scrolls up and >> > anything else quits; (2) for modes that inherit from special-mode >> > where SPC scrolls up, DEL and S-SPC scroll down, =E2=80=98q=E2=80=99 q= uits, and all >> > familiar keys work; and (3) for the full experience editable buffers >> > where you have to scroll with Page Up/Down and have no notion of >> > quitting. >>=20 >>=20 >> You exaggerate the problem. A typical user of computers these days >> needs much more than 3 sets of habits for similar actions. And >> scrolling with SPC in Emacs is quite a widely-used paradigm. > > How does one scroll up again, it is not evident how. At the risk of making another least useful response, note that typing `C-h m' in info-mode displays the normal *Help* buffer (buried by `q' and scrollable with keyboard and mouse) containing the exact content of the special modal *Help* buffer displayed by typing `?' in info-mode. Of course, the *Help* buffer displayed by `C-h m' (describe-mode) also contains information about the minor modes active in the info-mode buffer, so it's not as streamlined as the buffer displayed by `?', but it is navigable in the usual ways. Steve Berman