From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2023 23:09:14 +0200 Message-ID: <878ra179fp.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <20230809094655.793FC18A4654@snark.thyrsus.com> <87zg2uqdmv.fsf@localhost> <87edk3gbh3.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87jztvnuyb.fsf@localhost> <875y5bdutt.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87y1i6e1uh.fsf@localhost> <874jkub40o.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87jztqdw2l.fsf@localhost> <87msym9i4r.fsf@dataswamp.org> <877cpp914t.fsf@localhost> <871qfx8yfq.fsf@localhost> <87sf8d7hj0.fsf@localhost> <838ra5wn8r.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6464"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:1HmEcZToo6BHEAM1Q7pury9QqZY= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 24 06:36:53 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qZ25T-0001Vh-5S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 06:36:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZ24l-00050I-OZ; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 00:36:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qYv6a-0005yk-2v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Aug 2023 17:09:32 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qYv6Y-0005aP-D7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Aug 2023 17:09:31 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qYv6W-0009Bn-Fp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Aug 2023 23:09:28 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 24 Aug 2023 00:36:06 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309148 Archived-At: Alfred M. Szmidt wrote: > While SBCL will compile everything to whatever the target > architecture is -- so no bytecode is involved, and that > (small) indirection is avoided since it all becomes a normal > function call. This sounds like a good explanation since it is a general explanation on the level of different models, not individual optimizations implemented explicitely for certain algorithms like we saw with the Elisp vs CL versions of Fibonacci. Bytecode is slower since more instructions are carried out compared to no bytecode and only machine instructions to do the job. And if the advantage with virtual machines and bytecode is portability, it brings us back to the initial "SBCL isn't portable" at the other end of the spectrum. Is native compilation of Elisp not fully able to bridge that gap? PS. I agree native compilation should be encouraged for everyone, as it makes the interactive feel of Emacs much faster. This includes general use, so it isn't just a matter of executing heavy computation if anyone was under that impression - but that is faster as well, of course. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal